.32 Rifle an Unnecessary Change.

[Kameraden]

To go farther into this. This rifle shouldn't exist, should have never existed in any Fallout game. It was a bad design choice by Bethesda back in 08.

1. No one makes a Rifle that fires a .32 S&W round which the Revolver in this game is using Technically. It was like a backhand to the face every time I used it, I even modded it back in Fallout 3 to use .308. Because I was that irritated by it back then. It is like the Combat Rifle in Fallout 4 using .45 APC. *shivers*

2. The Model used for the Hunting Rifle in Fallout New Vegas has a larger Breech, way too large for a .32 S&W round. Same model technically still being used. People at Obsidian seemed to have been just as irritated by it as me so they changed it.

3. The Rifle still ejects a .308 Caliber Brass Case. Not very Immersive.

4. We already have a Low Tier Rifle, and it's the Varmint Rifle. So technically having the .32 Hunting Rifle from Fallout 3 isn't necessary.

5. Using the Hunting Rifle from New Vegas vs using the one from Fallout 3 was quite welcome, providing a weapon to take on Super Mutants pre 5.56/5mm/.308 AP rounds, ie it's critical chance/critical damage modifier plus base damage was a blessing. .32 Rifle is Underwhelming when compared.

I know you guys want to have a greater variety of weapons and all, definitely after looking at the 3.2 FAQ. But this was a bad design choice back in 2008, and technically still is today.

[Risewild]

It's not a change, it's a "keeping it how it was in FO3". Which is what TTW tries to do.
We want TTW to offer the same feeling (or as close as possible) of playing FO3 in the Capital Wasteland and the same feeling of playing FNV in the Mojave Desert.

Removing weapons that existed in FO3 would be making unnecessary changes to the game. It would throw FO3 feeling/balance out of TTW.

About weapons not making sense, being silly or not immersive... If we went by that logic we would have to remove the Fatman and mini nukes, we would have to remove the electric chinese sword, we would have to remove chinese pistol that deals fire damage, we would have to remove the toy knife, we would have to remove the rolling pin, we would have to remove the dart gun, we would have to remove the rock-it launcher, and the list goes on and on and on.

The true beauty of TTW is that allows people to modify it to whatever suits their taste.
Make a mod removing the .32 rifle, or replace them with the varmint rifle and the problem is fixed .

[RoyBatty]

Well first off games != IRL

Balance wise the Varmint Rifle is too weak and the Hunting Rifle in .308 is too strong. So I chose this compromise.

The rifle was originally supposed to be .30-06 , which is an appropriate caliber for the Winchester Model 70 which the rifle is. They decided to omit this ammo (and the .44 rimfire they had made for the Lincoln Rifle/Level Action Rifle that we also ignore) because it didn't make sense balance wise to have an ammo that was only used in one weapon. The rule for both games (outside the AMR) is that an ammo must be used in at least two weapons. Furthermore the rifle IRL came in a variety of chamberings, including .32LR , but again this makes no sense from a balance standpoint so they chose to use the .32 instead.

The .32 Rifle with appropriate craftable rounds is quite suited to and well balanced to the Capital Wasteland without being redundant, and it also has better iron sights and different mods than the .308 one, also the .308 one is now a different model and texture with the skin from paciencia (sans the flag) and the other iron sights added by New Vegas which are not period correct (1970 sights on a pre 64 model), if you want to get technical.

This was also a consideration because the Iver Johnson break back revolver doesn't shoot .22LR which is also just as dumb IRL, it does shoot .32 S&W. But again none of this makes sense, nor does it have to, it's a game, and in the game, balance takes precedence over reality and most players wouldn't know a black powder rimfire cartridge from a smokeless powder center fire one.

Are we going to also complain the G3 and Galil are firing 5.56 NATO instead of 7.62?

I will quote jokerine on this one... "I don't care about your precious immersion."

[Risewild]

I just remember another weapon inconsistency in FO3:
The Shanxi Type 17 (chinese pistol) instead of using 9mm ammo (like the real world Mauser) or .45 ammo (like the real world Shanxi Type 17), uses 10mm.

[RoyBatty]

Yep, should use .45 ACP

I changed the Varmint Rifle back to .22LR like the Remington rifle it's modeled after, but that was needed as an ammo dump for the .22SMG as the Silenced .22 pistol is too rare and you can't craft .22LR.

That was a weird change by Obsidian anyways considering it was not needed as an ammo dump for 5.56 weapons... it originally used that too as some NPCs still had .22LR in their inventory and could not use their gun because of the mismatch.

But this is why TTW is a Total Conversion now and not a mod, so we can make such changes when necessary.

[Decker]

I would compare Fallout 3s .32 hunting rifle to even more improvised looking pipe rifles (.38, .45 and .308) seen in Fallout 4 - Both types of weapons are propably supposed to be of the garage built variety in the Fallout setting - These are used instead of 'real' mil-spec guns because of availability and affordability issues both before and after the war. In this context the .32 rifle does make some sense, IMHO.

Varmint rifle now using .22LR is an excellent choice. In vanilla FNV, the varmint rifle always felt seriously under-powered to be firing 5.56mm rounds - .22LR fits the gameplay results perfectly.

As for G3 or AKM firing different than standard cartridges, this is realistically achievable IRL too - Simply modify the receiver/chamber and rebarrel the gun, and you can shoot some non-standard rounds. IRL there are AR platform weapon configs which can fire frex 7.62x39mm or even .50 Beowulf rounds, and there are Kalashnikov type rifles which can fire the 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.

Likewise, there are great many variants of the Mauser C96 style pistol (that the Chinese Pistol is based on), chambered for many different pistol rounds, some of them even have detachable box magazines instead of the more typical stripper clips. IMHO It would be perfectly plausible to have a 'Chinese Pistol' chamber any one of 7.63x25mm, 9x19mm, 10mm or .45 rounds.

As for the Chinese Assault Rifle (based on AKM, not necessarily Galil) being 5.56mm, there is a quite plausible lore reason as well; As per the lore, Chinese invaders smuggled thousands of AKMs modified for the 5.56x45mm NATO rounds into the U.S. before the great war, so that the invaders could use the local ammo stockpiles. The war was about resources, and by extension logistics like ammunition supplies were a strategic variable.

[RoyBatty]

Here is an article of the Type 56 RPD http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3464

It clearly has many design similarities to the CAR, it's a chinese clone of the RPD.

Take the receiver shape, barrel and front grip of the 56 RPD, take the mag and grip from a Type 56 Assault Rifle, and then the stock from Type 56 2 Assault Rifle, and mash them all together and you got the CAR.

It's a total bastard weapons that a mismash of 3 different Type 56's. Although the folding stock on CAR is nearly identical to the polymer one for an IMI Galil and it's yet another Kalishnakov variant.... so yeah.

[Kameraden]

Issue with the R91, Chinese Assault Rifle, and Chinese Pistol is Fallout 3 has in game lore that explains why they exist in the fashion they do. Chinese weapons in particular, being rechambered particularly to be used in the USA for an anti capitalist uprising, better to chamber them for local vs native. R91 though it looks like a G3 does have it's own lore behind it that explains why it exist as well.

That being said. If the .32 Rifle is to stay, I think choosing a better 'brass' case for the ejection would be all that is needed to make it more believable then. Currently as is, as I already stated. It still seems to eject a .308 brass case. You'd be surprised how much the 'little' things can bug some people. Myself included.

[Risewild]

It doesn't eject a .308. It ejects a .30-60 instead.
But Roy will change it to eject a .32.

I also don't remember the game telling us anything about why the chinese pistol uses 10mm though Can someone point me in the right direction? I am always looking for lore about weapons in fallout and this would be handy to have.

[Kameraden]

It doesn't eject a .308. It ejects a .30-60 instead.
But Roy will change it to eject a .32.

I also don't remember the game telling us anything about why the chinese pistol uses 10mm though Can someone point me in the right direction? I am always looking for lore about weapons in fallout and this would be handy to have.

*shrugs* maybe it's expanded Lore. I remember a lore video talking about it. So maybe I'm completely wrong. lol