"Realistic" Weapon and armor overhaul of sorts spurned from the PA Overhaul thread

[rbroab]

Not sure if this is too on topic, but I was thinking about removing sneak criticals from ranged weapons. 

You can prepare for a punch, and a stab in some manner...but there's no way you can really just clench, flex, and fend off a bullet.

Just felt like that belonged with a thread about realism. Not the best approach, but hitting/stabbing an unsuspecting victim will allow for better strikes. Just because the guy isn't looking doesn't mean your bullet will tear through his PA and send his parts flying in all directions.

[Sandloon]

^ i like this idea, although a slight critical (maybe 1.1x ) would be acceptable to me, to simulate incorrect armor facing, not trying to dodge or take cover at all (things that cant really be done in Fallout)

[plumjuice]

[quote=Sandloon]

^ i like this idea, although a slight critical (maybe 1.1x ) would be acceptable to me, to simulate incorrect armor facing, not trying to dodge or take cover at all (things that cant really be done in Fallout)

[/quote]

I am more inclined to leave that to normal critical hits than some mystical modifier for SA crits. And you can take cover, you just cant face hug for invulnerability. Except against explosions. It might just be me but I get exploded all the time when I really shouldn't.

[Sir Mediocre]

[quote=rbroab]

Not sure if this is too on topic, but I was thinking about removing sneak criticals from ranged weapons. 

You can prepare for a punch, and a stab in some manner...but there's no way you can really just clench, flex, and fend off a bullet. Just felt like that belonged with a thread about realism. Not the best approach, but hitting/stabbing an unsuspecting victim will allow for better strikes. Just because the guy isn't looking doesn't mean your bullet will tear through his PA and send his parts flying in all directions.[/quote]

I agree, and I think I changed the critical chance multiplier when sneaking from 100% to 15% or something.

[JaxFirehart]

I would just like to input a different point of view.

The whole concept of critical hits came from pen and paper RPGs and was meant to simulate hitting a vital area. It wasn't meant to simulate a "lucky" shot, at least not entirely. With modern day locational damage, the old school critical hit has lost some of its meaning: if I aim for the head, I do extra damage because the head is a vital location. But critical hits still serve a purpose: sure I can aim for the head, but if the opponent is wearing a helmet, I can't aim for a weak spot or opening, the game only knows I hit the head. That's where critical hits come in, they simulate you putting a bullet in the perfect spot. It's even worse with body shots, I can aim for the heart or kidney or liver, but the game doesn't register that. A sneak attack critical is a mechanic to say that, if they don't know you are there, you are much more likely to line up a shot on a critical area.

All that being said, I do think sneak attack criticals shouldn't do bonus damage on top of what a critical hit would already do. Until games are smart enough to truly register the exact location of damage and assess the importance of that location, critical hits still have a place, even sneak attack criticals.

[plumjuice]

Sneak attacks already have a 100% chance of being a critical hit. If the idea is that SA's make it easier to get a crit, but don't make it a better shot then all that needs to be done is remove the x2 multiplier for SA crits.

I'd definitely want to keep SA's on melee weapons though, even increasing it to 2 1/2. Even if they weren't rather underpowered vs some of the high end ranged weapons, I just like the idea of a stealthy melee guy one-hitting pretty much everything.

In an ideal world, crits and SA's would be calculated after dt/dr, but as I have been told before, it doesn't work that way and is hard coded. I'd wager you could script around it but that's way beyond me I'm sorry to say.

[delta534]

As I understand it sneak attacks are different from critical hits, they force critical hits but they also have another effect. When you get a sneak attack you get a flat multiplier to the final damage after dr/dt is calculated. Ranged only gets a 2 multiplier and melee gets a 5 multiplier. The ranged multiplier is a changeable game setting while I don't know about the Melee multiplier.

[plumjuice]

[quote=delta534]

As I understand it sneak attacks are different from critical hits, they force critical hits but they also have another effect. When you get a sneak attack you get a flat multiplier to the final damage after dr/dt is calculated. Ranged only gets a 2 multiplier and melee gets a 5 multiplier. The ranged multiplier is a changeable game setting while I don't know about the Melee multiplier.

[/quote]

Yes they are different and yes they do cause crits, but my point was more to do with removing the x2 modifier for a SA on a ranged weapon as I feel it is overpowered, nonsensical, and that all interpretations of what it is supposed to represent can be covered by the normal critical bonus or the headshot bonus.

I think melee should be a bit different, but to be honest, I am not really invested in it at all. After checking the wiki, you are indeed correct that melee gets a x5 for SA's, which probably does not need a buff.

[rbroab]

With what Jax said, that makes more sense.

That said, I'd like to see sneak criticals removed from ranged weapons, and replaced with a better chance to receive criticals while sneaking. Just because the enemy can't see you doesn't mean your bullet will pierce their armor, but you have a better chance to look for weak spots and take your shot.

[plumjuice]

[quote=rbroab]

With what Jax said, that makes more sense.

That said, I'd like to see sneak criticals removed from ranged weapons, and replaced with a better chance to receive criticals while sneaking. Just because the enemy can't see you doesn't mean your bullet will pierce their armor, but you have a better chance to look for weak spots and take your shot.

[/quote]

SA's turn the chance to crit to 100% as long as you undetected by the target. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sneak_attack_critical

Also, this http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Damage is probably worth a look over by anyone, even if you don't care about SA's. "The things you know" and all that.