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Project Nevada - Mutations Proof of Concept

General mod discussion and requests.
JaxFirehart
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Project Nevada - Mutations Proof of Concept

Post by JaxFirehart » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:43 am

So I decided to be different and not make any public mention of this until I had a proof of concept ready to go. So here's a quick video.


This is still in very early testing, you will notice that the Vault-Boy still looks like a cyborg instead of a mutant. A question mark is missing in the confirmation dialogue. A few other minor errors. I'm not sure how the player will acquire the ability to mutate, I want it easy to access, but require some investment. I'm thinking a simple perk that requires you to be irradiated, or something similar. Once you acquire the ability to mutate, any time when you are not in combat, you can simply press 'M' (configurable) and the mutation menu will appear. As seen in the video, the cost of mutations is based on what you get, not where you put it. So if you want to go in and re-arrange your mutations, it won't cost you anything. The cost to apply a mutation is "Mutagens" which are acquired over time, but perks and other situational stuff can cause it to increase faster or even give instant bonuses. I eventually want a unique upgrade system that allows you to incrementally improve mutations. The easiest way to do it would be to use message boxes that say which upgrade do you want to apply, but I would like to implement a real UI with a tree structure (think Diablo 2 skill trees, or maybe World of Warcraft, or something similar).


Done babbling, any ideas thoughts suggestions? This is NOT for TTW and is actually a PN based mod that I've had kicking around since about 2009...



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Risewild
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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:14 am

It would be awesome if there

Post by Risewild » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:50 am

It would be awesome if there would be different slots for the mutations in like some rpg games there are slots for armor cheeky like a head mutation, a body mutation, a hands mutation, a legs and/or feet mutation. Also maybe different levels of mutation, like to have level 1 you need a Perk (Let's call it Mutant for now), and to have a mutation level 2 which improves a bit on the lv1 one you need Mutant second rank and so on... That way you can decide if the player aquires the skill to mutate by sacrificing a perk or by doing something ingame that will award that perk cheeky (like fall into a pool of green goo or whatever). Also maybe have some mutations that are quite powerful but requires the player to give up some goodies, like for example "Horns" you grew some horns, you get some bonus and now you can't use most headgear or "Anvil Fists" you now punch way harder unfortunately your fingers are all attached to each other so you can't shoot most guns devil.


Well I doubt you were asking about what I just wrote but that is what I could think of at the moment.


The idea for that mod is awesome though laugh.


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JaxFirehart
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Actually that's EXACTLY what

Post by JaxFirehart » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Actually that's EXACTLY what I was asking about, and I agree with everything except the specific slots but only because this is being designed to augment the Project Nevada Cyberware system while being fairly different; Cyberware has slots (arms, head, body, legs) so I don't want mutations to have that, to differentiate them. 


For Mutations I am trying to go flexible, as flexible as possible. I would like a perk to even allow you to mutate in combat (perhaps at additional cost) so that players can constantly tailor their mutations to their specific situation.


I also like the drawbacks. I was thinking along the same lines, that some mutations cause drawbacks.


Something I didn't address before (because it's not implemented) is how the player acquires mutations. I've kicked around a lot of ideas, but one main core remains. Once you gain "access" to a mutation, you still need to unlock it before you can apply it, using another set if points (different from Mutagens) called FEV. It works like this:


You gain access to a mutation in a multitude of places such as finishing challenges, quests or miscellaneous objectives. So you do the optional quest objective for Moira and get extra irradiated, instead of getting you the rad regeneration perk that restores your limbs it gives you access to a mutation that does the same thing.


So now you have access to the Rad Regeneration mutation you have to PAY FEV in order to add it to your list of available mutations.


Finally, you can pay mutagens to apply the Rad Regeneration mutation.


So you have to learn a mutation, unlock it, and then apply it. FEV is gained by getting exposed to FEV, so killing Super Mutants will net you some FEV, same with Centaurs and Deathclaws because they are all FEV-based enemies. I would like there to be other sources, but I can't think of anything that makes sense.


Gaining new mutation slots (up to 8) is done by spending FEV, with no other prerequisites (you don't have to learn it somewhere, just drop the FEV and gain a new slot).


Upgrading mutations is gained by spending FEV as well. I would like the upgrades to be learned after you have used the mutation for so long. So, while Knobbly Knuckles is applied, any experience you gain is also progress toward unlocking the next upgrades for Knobbly Knuckles. Not sure how many upgrades there will be or what kind of UI will be involved. I like Anvil Fists, will probably be the final upgrade for Knobbly Knuckles.


One more thing on upgrades, I would like to set them up so that you have to make choices. Say Knobbly Knuckles has 3 upgrade tiers. At each tier you have 2 or 3 options, you can only pick one at each tier. So one player may pick "Reinforced Knuckles" (more damage), "Rapid Mutation" (apply the Knobbly Knuckles mutation for cheap) and "Anvil Fists" (do massive damage, can't use guns). So they can easily add and remove Knobbly Knuckles, mitigating the weakness of being unable to use guns, allowing them to do massive damage in close combat, and quickly regress the mutation for ranged combat. Another player picks "Fist of Fury" (attack quicker), "Permanent Mutation" (no longer takes up a slot, but can no longer be removed) and "Spiked Knuckles" (some Damage Threshold penetration, can't use fist weapons). They don't have to worry about swapping out their mutation since spiked knuckles doesn't prohibit guns use, but they don't do the damage of "Anvil Fists" and can never use fist weapons again (due to Permanent Mutation).


This is all just ideas at the moment, but I really like the sound of that. I like the idea that some mutations have drawbacks. I'm already implementing "Eyeshine" which gives a permanent boost to light sources, unless you are wearing sunglasses. So if you are outside, during the day, with no sunglasses, it's blindingly bright, (maybe even have you suffer -1 or -2 to Perception, not sure).



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MrMedicinal
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Location: Two Sun, Arizona

Looks awesome! I'm loving

Post by MrMedicinal » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:31 pm

Looks awesome! I'm loving everything i see, especially the FEV points system.


As for another draw back Maybe once the player get's enough "Mutations" there could also be a drop in Charisma or Speech as well, seeing as mutants aren't that respected in the wastes.



dawe1313
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:39 am

about the "gaining experience

Post by dawe1313 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:45 pm

about the "gaining experience while mutation is active", you might want to take a look at how [url=http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/43557]Signature Weapons[/url] and [url=http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/43842]Signature Armor[/url] handle that. or the latest [url=http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/44204]NVEC[/url] which has them both combined with MCM support.


it keeps track of XP/kills while your sig weapon/armor is equipped and then they level up (add additional abilities) based on a player changeable amount of XP or number of kills.


how about a "Thicker Skin" tree. various levels provide increasing amounts of DT, or maybe DR, with a proportional penalty to Agility


Skill Tree type UI: you might ask Gribbles if the PN cyberware implant UI could be modified to present a left-to right Skill tree like interface


some thoughts on "Anvil Fists". sounds like your hands are permanently fused into a solid, closed fist. which would make anything requiring fine motor skills, almost impossible. so a significant penalty to Lockpick, Repair, and if possible, while hacking (you try typing with a closed fist). make it a quest item, undroppable weapon. with a GameMode block in it's script that force autoequips it while in the players inventory, so even if the player equips something different with the pipboy open, the mutation should be reequipped when the pipboy is closed. or, make it an armor using both of the hand slots. GameMode scripted autoequip while in inventory, which should prevent any hand/glove based armor addons from displaying, and force unequips anything in the WeaponsListRangedAll formlist.


the same GameMode scripted autoequping/unequiping could be used to force using/blocking a variety of particular armor/body type slots


[quote=MrMedicinal]...As for another draw back Maybe once the player get's enough "Mutations" there could also be a drop in Charisma or Speech as well, seeing as mutants aren't that respected in the wastes.[/quote]having a Charisma/Speech penalty for obviously visible mutations is also a good idea. variable amounts for each mutation depending on how visible/grotesque they are.


[quote=JaxFirehart]...I'm already implementing "Eyeshine" which gives a permanent boost to light sources, unless you are wearing sunglasses...[/quote] get this one by killing a few people, getting locked up in a max security slam, then trading a few packs of cigs to a doctor?



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

20 Menthol Kools, to be exact

Post by JaxFirehart » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:18 pm

20 Menthol Kools, to be exact. I allude to riddick, but the movies actually imply that he lied about where his eyeshine comes from.



Gribbleshnibit8
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:06 am

I don't actually know much

Post by Gribbleshnibit8 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:32 pm

I don't actually know much about the UI files for Cyberware. I did figure out how to implement the button thing it has for another mod. So if you do want to do the tree thing, I can probably help figure it out, but gonna need a LOT of UI parameters for it. Ugh, UI work is such a pain but leads to awesome things :)


I like where this is going though.



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Well I already hacked the

Post by JaxFirehart » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:37 pm

Well I already hacked the hell out of the Cyberware UI to even get to this point, so I'm learning TONS about UI modding. Making a tree setup shouldn't be too hard, would just have to cement an exact size, say 3x4 maximum, as in, each mutation has a max of 4 tiers and a max of 3 options per tier.



Gribbleshnibit8
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:06 am

Yeah, the limitation is going

Post by Gribbleshnibit8 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:31 pm

Yeah, the limitation is going to be the size of the already hijacked interface panel. When you get around to that let me know, I'd like to help so I can learn some of it too, not that it matters since this form of UI modding is going the way of the dodo, but still, fun to know and helps teach some XML.



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Some updates:

Post by JaxFirehart » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:44 am

Some updates:


I have settled on a 3x4(HxW) panel of upgrades, the leftmost column is the base mutation, with three upgrade tiers to its right, you may only select ONE upgrade per tier, forever losing the others. All mutations will share certain generic upgrades, so at each tier, one upgrade will be the same no matter which mutation you are looking at, for example, Tier 1 will ALWAYS have Rapid Mutation (1/2 price to evolve this mutation). Work needs to be done on what the generics will be. I do NOT intend to have requisites for upgrades, so no matter what you pick at tier 1, all tier 2 upgrades are available to you. However, there is no reason certain upgrades shouldn't work well together (such as Anvil Fist and Rapid Mutation helping to minimize the weaknesses associated with Anvil Fist).


Traits are being added as mutations. When you first take the Mutate! perk (a throwback to classic fallout) it scans which traits you have and, if there is a mutation associated with that trait, it unlocks it and applies it for free. So if you start with Small Frame, Heavy Handed and Built to Destroy, then the first time you open the mutation menu, three of your 4 slots will be filled with those 3 traits. The other traits are available to purchase (using FEV) for fairly cheap. In the beginning a mutant style player will mostly be swapping out traits.


One last thing, should I revive and rebalance some of the classic traits for the Mutation system, or no? I was looking at stuff like Gifted and Jinxed and was actually coming up with well balanced implementations in FNV.


Edit:


Generic upgrade ideas


Tier 1: Rapid Mutation (evolve this for half price)


Tier 2: Affinity (gain FEV and/or Mutagens more quickly when this mutation is applied)


Tier 3: Permanent Mutation (no longer takes up a slot, can no longer be regressed)



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