Tweaking Unarmed Skill

[H1ms3lf]

Heya!! =]



A melee oriented char can be quite a rare occurrence (or even taboo to some).



Would be cool if both the "unarmed" and "melee weapons" had some tweaking done to them, Given it a bit more thought, maybe Unarmed could be changed into "Light Melee", and Melee Combat into "Heavy Melee". So each distinctively affect different weapon types.

Alternatively, jump to this post for another (even better?) method: https://taleoftwowastelands.com/comment/55694#comment-55694

The main appeal of the change is making each skill provide bonuses in the way of movespeed, AP recovery, measures of DT/DR, chance to knock opponents to floor, maybe even parry/deflect some stuff (are there more things to include? like attack speed, weapon swap speed, bonus to stealth?)

Say for each 10 points, an extra 1% to movement speed, useful to melee and generally moving around. Each 7 points an extra 1 DR/DT, each 5 a small bonus to AP recovery, maybe each 15 a bonus to weapon swap speed, etc.

Going overboard, dunno if this change would be applied globally (to all creatures) via the skill change. If script checks are needed, how troublesome is for the engine to "acknowledge" its state when swapping guns/melee/holster etc to both player and all creatures \o/

Based on how feasible it is, some bonuses could instead be ON while in combat only.

Anyway, that's the idea. Could try this tweak myself if abilities allowed it (which may take a long while) or when this becomes priority (lots of other stuff on top of the list).



So, If anybody would like to discuss/advise or try implementing something of the kind, or if theres a mod that does similar, please be welcome to write a few words ;)

[Risewild]

Nice ideas.

But just a warning, melee and unarmed are really OP in Gamebryo Fallout games. If you implement some things from that list you must be willing to sacrifice any semblance of balance or hardship that the games throw at you.

It might be worth it for people who want to play with mods that make the game way harder (like Bleed) because those mods usually make melee much less OP than it actually is in vanilla (as in, you're dead most of the time before you manage to get close).

Take it from someone who plays a melee, unarmed or "melee and unarmed" character 95% of the time.

Still, I wish you good luck with this .

[H1ms3lf]

Yup gotta try a melee run before changing anything. It is possible I just play bad, but I usually die a lot while using guns/explosives, I imagine I would die even more in melee ^^

However I always try to set mods and difficulty in a way that resemble some realism, with item scarcity and challenging enemies, sometimes I even get pissed by the enemies good aim, LOL. But the thrill it adds more than makes up :DD

[H1ms3lf]

Given it a bit more thought, and would probably be better to change Unarmed into "Light Melee", and Melee Combat into "Heavy Melee". So each distinctively affect different weapon types.



Gonna edit the inital post to reflect that.



The extra bonuses to speeds/DR and etc could be an added feature as well, but first gotta try a melee char to see how easy/hard it plays (this run is gonna take a while to happen ^^)

[EnderDragonFire]

Well, from a purely realism-based perspective, I must point out that this is somewhat dubious. In most real world martial arts systems, small weapons are taught alongside larger ones and use many of the same techniques. On the other hand, there is very little in common between unarmed martial arts techniques and armed martial arts techniques. What I mean is that, there is more in common between kickboxing, karate, and MMA than there is between any of those and Kendo, HEMA, etc. On the other hand, Kendo, HEMA, and other armed martial arts tend to teach the use of long blades, short blades, spears, etc. in tandem. 

So really, it makes far more sense for a knife and a sledgehammer to use the same skill, and a power fist and boxing glove to use the same skill, than for a boxing glove and knife to use the same skill, or a power fist and slegehammer. Just my 2 cents, but feel free to go crazy making whatever mod you want! It's your game, do what you like, YMMV, etc. 

[H1ms3lf]

What is truly bothersome is that unarmed isn't unarmed at all. Nobody is going to bare-fist their way across the wastelands. Being this dubious from the concept is a terrible start...

A power fist would need going into light melee, despite the weight. It is more about weapon type than weight. Would need to count all weapons to split 50/50, maybe include knifes up to ripper into light melee if needed.



From a gameplay perspective, the twist was to provide each skill (light/heavy) with distinct characteristics, light allowing for more speed and AP recovery/stealth, while heavy granting measures of DT/DR, a chance to knocking opponents to the floor, maybe even parry/deflect some stuff.



I admit the best approach would be to have these traits be weapon specific rather than skill specific, but again the DEVs had to **** it up making 2 skills for melee in a game where playing that way is the exception (vast majority ignores both skills).

In fact the best approach would be to scrap Unarmed and just have Melee Combat. Boggles the mind why DEVs didn't made so from the start, perhaps because the engine was initially for sword/magic games? Where close combat is the focus.

Having 2 melee approaches in a setting where players are supposed to use guns is lame, but once done this way it complicates matters, since there are all the NPCs and creatures to account for.



Hmmm, perhaps this way then:

- Change all Player equipable melee weapons (plus bare fists) to use Melee Combat as default skill.

- Erase Unarmed from Player, wherever Unarmed was used (checks, etc), switch it for Melee Combat instead.

- On NPCs/creatures, apply a check/script that equates their Melee Combat to be (at least) as high as their Unarmed skill was (no need removing unarmed on them, just equate to melee for safety measures).

- Apply specific characteristic to each weapon individually (checks Melee Combat OnEquip to gauge for bonuses related to skill value).

- Remove half the books that add to Melee, and half that add to Unarmed, make both add to Unarmed instead (so as to not disable visual assets, both illustrations can still be used :D).



The goal is giving melee a more enticing/interesting approach, and if nothing else, making it a rather attractive combat alternative, instead of a dump/ignored skill.

Gonna edit first post to reflect this as well.

[jlf65]

[quote=H1ms3lf]Nobody is going to bare-fist their way across the wastelands.[/quote]

I don't know - there's something appealing about punching a Behemoth to death. They really ought to give a special achievement for that.