Bugs or "changes"?

[Banjo]

Pretty awed playing FO3 for the first time in FNV's engine... but a couple of things have confused me so on my way out of Vault 101 that I wasn't sure were bugs or intentional changes:

1) Amata gave me a 9mm Pistol, not the correct 10mm one! Huh?! That isn't right obviously, since the 9mm didn't even exist in FO3! If this is a deliberate change, is there a list somewhere here of such changes in TTW so that I don't end up reporting bugs that are just deliberate alterations of vanilla FO3?

2) During the birthday party scene, it says "press V to enter VATS" when child-Butch turned hostile. Pressing V does nothing, and I had to let Butch punch me until Gomez broke up the "fight". It's been a while since I played FO3 from the start, but that's not right, is it?

3) As I mentioned in a previous thread, during the SPECIAL baby book tutorial, I was told to "pick up the brahmin skull"!

[TJ]

[quote=Banjo]

Pretty awed playing FO3 for the first time in FNV's engine... but a couple of things have confused me so on my way out of Vault 101 that I wasn't sure were bugs or intentional changes:

1) Amata gave me a 9mm Pistol, not the correct 10mm one! Huh?! That isn't right obviously, since the 9mm didn't even exist in FO3! If this is a deliberate change, is there a list somewhere here of such changes in TTW so that I don't end up reporting bugs that are just deliberate alterations of vanilla FO3?

2) During the birthday party scene, it says "press V to enter VATS" when child-Butch turned hostile. Pressing V does nothing, and I had to let Butch punch me until Gomez broke up the "fight". It's been a while since I played FO3 from the start, but that's not right, is it?

3) As I mentioned in a previous thread, during the SPECIAL baby book tutorial, I was told to "pick up the brahmin skull"!

[/quote]

1:) Design Change

2:) Could be a mod conflict, inside the vault didn't like NV mods in the earlier versions, though now that I've actually gotten to play 2.0 it seems much more accepting..

3:) I've heard of that happening before, was probably here where I read about it but it's been a few weeks or more.

[Risewild]

I will try and answer your questions .

1) The 9mm Pistol is intentional, the 10mm is OP for the beginning of the game and since FNV introduced the 9mm it would make more sense and integrate both games better if we get a less powerful gun in the beginning.

2) I am not sure but I don't remember getting that message, I will have to check it but I did the birthday party scene many times before and I am sure it is normal that we are not supposed to be able to hit back.

3) The skull message is a known issue and I believe it will be fixed in the next update .

Also don't worry if you report a bug that is not a bug or something like that we love to hear from the community and by posting bugs and non bugs will help other players to read those posts and learn if that is a bug or a new feature .

[Banjo]

Thanks for the quick reply!

1) Ah, that's a shame about the 10mm Pistol. I totally get that one could argue that it's too overpowered for the start of the game (and I'd definitely agree you get far too much ammo to start out with!), but lore-wise the good ol' 10mm is so much the "weapon of the Vaults" that I find it a bit jarring seeing that humdrum "present day" 9mm in its place. Thankfully, it took me just a few minutes to mod my beloved 10mm Pistols back into Vault 101 for personal use/taste.  :)

(this is likely personal bias, by the way, as even in classic Fallout games I was never fond of "present day" guns like Beretta 9mm's and M60's showing up... far preferred FO1's Citykillers and the like)

Does this mean that TTW's 9mm->10mm change will make the 10mm Pistol rarer out in the wasteland (on low lever raiders, Moira's store, etc.)? If so, I do think that's a good thing. I like the idea of the 9mm being more of a "rugged" gun that's easy to maintain and common, while the 10mm is more high-tech, powerful but limited to Vaults and high-tech/military groups (BoS, Enclave).

(it would also mean for me personally that having a 10mm from the start is game-breaking if it's rare outside the Vaults and thus harder to keep repaired).

2) I definitely wouldn't trust my own memory of whether we could fight or not at the birthday party... but I will say that I am running TTW with NO other mods at all (besides the included optional eps), just to make sure I don't get a conflict with one and report it as a TTW issue.

3) Noted this in the other topic too... glad to hear it'll be easily fixed! One of those tiny but "wow, that was jarring!" moments! :)

PS Should I post my little mod here in case others want the 10mm Pistol back too? It's nothing fancy, but it would save others doing the same or complaining "but I want things like FO3 vanilla!" :) Tried to attach it here but couldn't get it to work. :(

[rbroab]

Amata gave me a laser pistol...Anyway, I don't think the 10mm is rarer to find in the wastes. The first place I went was Megaton and Moira was selling them.

[Banjo]

[quote=rbroab]

Amata gave me a laser pistol...Anyway, I don't think the 10mm is rarer to find in the wastes. The first place I went was Megaton and Moira was selling them.

[/quote]

Amata does that if your Energy Weapons skill is higher than your Guns skill, right? I think it only happens if you accept the gun when she first offers it, otherwise it will later be a 10mm (9mm)?

[JaxFirehart]

You are correct Banjo

Yes we are supposed to be able to fight Butch (I think...) I always spit on the sweetroll though, so I need to test that.

The 10mm -> 9mm was a balance choice, but you are right about it being uncharacteristic in the vault, I hadn't thought of that when I made that change. Do you have any suggestions?

The raiders, super mutants, brotherhood, outcasts, and talon co have all had their weapon lists updated. You will see cross wasteland content when appropriate.

[Ikki]

Yes we are supposed to be able to fight Butch (I think...) I always spit on the sweetroll though, so I need to test that.

In Fallout 3, you cannot raise your fists until you have the BB Gun, so you can't fight back

[WOLFkraut]

I can confirm all of this. I just played through the first part of the game and, while I did have mods active, they were VERY few. Only TTW, MCM, a radio mod and a race mod (which I was testing, ran through the Vault with it once and without it once) and that was it besides simple texture replacers.

The 9mm I figured was a balance change, but I agree, I prefer the 10mm pistol. I also didn't like all of the guards losing their 10mm pistols. I'm just not a fan, it didn't feel as much like Fallout 3. And while a realize that if I was going to get anal about playing lore-friendly Fallout 3, I should be playing Fallout 3 on its own without mods... but I don't want to do that, I just want it to feel as close to the original as possible while still having the benefits of the New Vegas engine and New Vegas mods. If possible, maybe Amata could give you the Weathered 10mm Pistol from the Classic Pack? Obviously only if you have it installed, but that would actually be pretty cool if you got the Vault 13 stuff while leaving Vault 101 (I'm really not sure how to tie that in, but being given classic Vault items at the beginning makes sense to me). Just a thought.

The fight with Butch seems a little buggy. I'm very sure that the VATS pop-up isn't supposed to play until you have the BB Gun, which itself is a little buggy. And you can't fight him, but I honestly don't remember if that was the case in Fallout 3. Fallout 3 doesn't like Windows 7 too well and playing Fallout 3 on the 360 would feel really weird after PC, so I'm not really sure how to check. Maybe I can look up an old Let's Play of Fallout 3, I've been meaning to watch SSoHPKC's again.

The ball definitely says Brahmin Skull. It's really funny, actually. :-P But some people might get really pissed if they install TTW and are greeted with an obvious bug at the very beginning. I don't mind, of course, but it just reminds you that TTW is still very much in Alpha. Although, since the Vault doesn't play a role in the game after the escape besides Trouble On The Homefront, it's probably worth it to just focus on the rest of DC.

Also, I don't remember if this was the case in Fallout 3, but it seems like Dad takes a while to come back. I already looked around the room, completed all the objectives and went back into the pen and closed the door before he came back like 30 seconds later. How would he even know that I left the pen like that? Maybe I was just too fast from playing this part so many times.

And finally, I had a weird bug near Super Duper Mart and the Farrogot (I can't spell it right now, lol) Metro. There are some raiders and super mutants who fight across the river (Ie., radiers on one side shooting at super mutants on the other), now this is normal, but for some reason, instead of standing and fighting, they all just jumped into the water and started swimming around... They couldn't fight eachother (or me) anymore and it just became ridiculous. The super mutants also had some issues swimming, they would sometimes sink to the bottom of the water or suddenly stand on top of it while trying to shoot before sinking again. Very odd looking.

[Banjo]

[quote=JaxFirehart]

Yes we are supposed to be able to fight Butch (I think...) I always spit on the sweetroll though, so I need to test that.

[/quote]

It would be great to be able to fight him rather than be a punching bag! Certainly not something that's worth a lot of effort but it seems confusing otherwise, IMO.

[quote=JaxFirehart]

The 10mm -> 9mm was a balance choice, but you are right about it being uncharacteristic in the vault, I hadn't thought of that when I made that change. Do you have any suggestions?

[/quote]

As I said, I get the thought behind this and somewhat agree... but yeah, 10mm Pistol IS the "Vault weapon" to me. 9mm and other old guns are "wasteland weapons", IMO. As to suggestions... one thing I thought playing with my mod (turning 9mm back to 10mm) was that I had a ridiculous amount of ammo. Being given a 10mm Pistol by Amata but only a handful of rounds means you'd have to use it sparingly, rather than run through the Vault blasting everyone and everything. Basebat bat those Radroaches, and save the bullets for saving Butch's mom or the Overseer!

[quote=WOLFkraut]

The 9mm I figured was a balance change, but I agree, I prefer the 10mm pistol. I also didn't like all of the guards losing their 10mm pistols. I'm just not a fan, it didn't feel as much like Fallout 3. And while a realize that if I was going to get anal about playing lore-friendly Fallout 3, I should be playing Fallout 3 on its own without mods... but I don't want to do that, I just want it to feel as close to the original as possible while still having the benefits of the New Vegas engine and New Vegas mods.

[/quote]

See, that's how I approached TTW initially, somewhat wrongly; I was *really* psyched to play FO3 with FNV's improved features (Survival skill, cooking, thrist and hunger, weapon modification, harvestable plants), but was actually expecting it to be almost entirely "vanilla", needing mods to do things like make FNV guns or items appear in DC loot lists, rebalance weapon damages or rechamber guns like the .32 Pistol, for example. Now I see that's not really the intention of the mod (more of a "combine both games into one long game" goal), which is cool, but it took me a moment to adapt my thinking from "wait, why is my Combat Shotgun firing 20ga shells?!" :)

I do agree that finding the closest balance to vanilla FO3 with a minimum of change would be my personal preference, leaving more drastic changes to optional mods. But that's just my two cents.

[quote=WOLFkraut]

If possible, maybe Amata could give you the Weathered 10mm Pistol from the Classic Pack? Obviously only if you have it installed, but that would actually be pretty cool if you got the Vault 13 stuff while leaving Vault 101 (I'm really not sure how to tie that in, but being given classic Vault items at the beginning makes sense to me). Just a thought.

[/quote]

Funnily enough, I was actually making a mod to do that today, thinking how neat it would be the Vault 101 10mm Pistols "pristine" (Weathered) versions of the gun since it's the only place they'd be in such condition (and would contrast with the regular "wasteland" ones rather nicely, IMO).

I never liked the mechanics of the "cheat item" Vault Canteen but love it's appearance/nostalgia. If it was part of a "fillable canteens" mod, I'd love to see a Vault 101 version as a starting item someday.

[quote=WOLFkraut]

The ball definitely says Brahmin Skull. It's really funny, actually. :-P But some people might get really pissed if they install TTW and are greeted with an obvious bug at the very beginning. I don't mind, of course, but it just reminds you that TTW is still very much in Alpha.

[/quote]

This. For me, it was less caring about a very minor bug and more the feeling of "well THAT'S wrong for a start!" since sadly we often focus on the one wrong thing despite everything else being right (in this case, the awesomeness of seeing FO3's V101 running on FNV's engine!).

Which leads me to say again how AMAZING this entire project is, folks! :) Like I said elsewhere, a dream come true!