Super Mutant DT

[TJ]

[quote=Table Man]I'd rather you decrease the DT on the bigger guys even further (regulars and brutes are fine) and opt for more health instead. [/quote]

Whatever you do, Jax, I implore you to not just pile on HP.

[JaxFirehart]

Agreed. I need to find a balance between HP and DT and personally, I'm rather smitten with DT.

[ElvenScoundrel]

Before ANY nerfs of the sort, which I may or may not agree with, have you taken into consideration AP rounds? I mean, they do a really wonderful job most of the time when you have 'em and when you use 'em wisely. I agree Muties should be tough as fuck, but then again I believe stocking up on Armor Piercing ammo is very wise as well, and good use of the game's ammunition mechanics that is currently in effect. DT 15 comes down to like DT10 with AP ammo, which is manageable and it makes your combat a bit easier.

I really think the different ammunition types should REALLY be taken into consideration here. Consider this: NV's 5mm  ammo has an innate -10DT. THAT'S NEGATIVE 10 DAMAGE THRESHOLD. 5mm is pretty OP IMO but for taking mutants? Grab an Assault Carbine and hose a Super Mutant down with a magazine and tell me how much it took you to take one down. This is also where killing tough shit like Giant Radscorpions and Deathclaws come into effect as well: AP rounds work REALLY well on tough enemies (as well as things like mines and careful planning).

[JaxFirehart]

See, but you are talking END game stuff, Assault Carbines aren't too easy to come by right away. Same with AP rounds as well. Most of the discussion here is talking about how super mutants are so hard to kill in the early game, not in the late game.

[FiftyTifty]

I'll throw in my two cents.

 

We're talking about huge, yellow-green hulks that are completely insane with a gigantic dollop of violence. I say keep the muties as walking tanks. Now, surviving a damn nuke sure is odd, but heck; there's a reason that super mutants are a major terror of the wastes.

I mean, remember the original Fallout? You can encounter a huge underground complex of super mutants when you're only an hour into the game. Needless to say, resistance is futile; you'd be fugg'd completely until you beefed up late-game. Why not have the same deal with TTW? Let's actually have an enemy that can contend with the player through-out the game.

Though, I am one of those types that play every game on the hardest possible settings. I may have a bias here.

[ElvenScoundrel]

[quote=JaxFirehart]

See, but you are talking END game stuff, Assault Carbines aren't too easy to come by right away. Same with AP rounds as well. Most of the discussion here is talking about how super mutants are so hard to kill in the early game, not in the late game.

[/quote]

 

People shouldn't really be fighting Muties early game, to be honest. The small area they're confined to is a high-level area, and if you go there at low levels you're honestly asking to get brutally murdered. The only nearby place where you can clash with ONE mutant of your level is near the Anchorage Memorial, and you can honestly dodge that fight altogether. But if you go to the Memorial and get near the trenches or fiddle around in Downtown DC at low levels, well, you deserve to die.

[plumjuice]

The main quest directs you there very quickly. VERY VERY VERY quickly. Otherwise I'd be all for them being insanely tough (as in, tougher than they are now) Even if you hang back from the Pride as it does its thing, there is still a danger of just being in the same vicinity. And the behemoth at the end. I hate that guy.

Now I like to hold off on the main quest for a bit anyway, and my old sneaky toon could do okay with a hunting rifle headshot, but 3 or more, or I miss a shot, and I'm dead. I'm pretty good at Fallout 3 and NV, and I know a lot of tricks and hidey-snipey spots, so I can only imagine the frustration of rocking out with muties at level 9 with an AR.

Not to mention TTW trying to emulate FO3 gameplay, i.e. muties weren't indestructible.

[Sarcasm]

I just wanted to duck in here quickly and say that I really, really like the super mutants as they are now. Most weapons are ineffective or just plain useless against them, and I like that. They should be tough. I was planning on doing the Reilly's Rangers quest after getting the Virgo II dish in the Museum of Technology, but after clearing it out I realized I didn't have enough ammo for my critical, super-mutant killing guns to clear the hospital and Statesman.

Kind of brought back a bit of the feeling from much older games where the game world wasn't completely built around the player for the player's convenience; you can't go wherever you want to go, there are just some areas you aren't strong enough to clear yet. And I had to wait a while and gather ammo and explosives. Once I finally did clear the Statesman it felt pretty good because there was some build-up to it.

The weapons I found highly effective against super mutants: Xuanlong assault rifle, all explosives - frag grenades, mines, etc., an the hunting rifle. My hunting rifle is .308, not sure if that is a TTW change from dropping .32 ammo or a mod, though. Hunting rifle in particular was extremely strong, killed the basic super mutant in just 1 head shot with 50 Small Guns. Xuanlong didn't break their DT but killed them in <12 shots nonetheless. Frag grenades were also devastating against them, 2-3 and a whole horde was cleared.

Still, there are some oddities with their current DT. Explosives and single-shot rifles are overly effective, while some weapons like shotguns are completely useless due to the way the game calculates their damage. Lowering their DT but greatly increasing their health wouldn't be such a bad idea. I do like them being tough to kill, though. The cannon fodder they were in FO3 didn't make sense, given they were the end-game ultimate enemy from Fallout 1 and the second strongest enemies in Fallout 2 after the Enclave soldiers.

[JaxFirehart]

[quote=plumjuice]

Not to mention TTW trying to emulate FO3 gameplay, i.e. muties weren't indestructible.

[/quote]

This. If you want the mutants to be harder, a mod will have to do that, because we are trying to emulate the FO3 feel.

[GoreMaster]

Just wanted to give my 2 cents about Jax's beta-ish fix for the DT and it has made the game a whole lot better. Just drove me nuts that I couldnt even leave dent in a mutie even when using a Minigun with JSP Loaded rounds or any rounds for the matter.

I am playing on the most difficult settings that I could set and at Level 10 with 30 into Guns perk most if not all guns absolutely sucked.....Hunting rifle shouldnt take 6 shots to the face or Combat shot gun taking 3 clips to kill one. 

With the DT fix its a whole lot more balanced now. Im no Demi-God but not a freaking radroach either which is how I felt.

Thanks for the early fix Jax.