Super Mutant DT

Post by **Risewild** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:42 am

I agree with the supplies being scarce it's the capital wasteland there is no one making weapons and ammo like the Gun Runners or the Van Graffs (s?) in NV and the Crimson Caravan guys and so on . Again I am not good with balance things since I play unarmed and that by itself is OP so I really can't tell how tough SM are for gun people. Although I also think that DC should have way more pre-war food since it was a huge city, but I do believe that is already the case . Now about enemies being tough my worst nightmare in DC at the moment are Ghoul Reavers, those things drop me like I was an half dead fly (Thank God for Power Fist GRA + 2 mods + Ghoul Mask + Sneak Attack Criticals and still I need more than 4 sneak attack criticals in VATS to drop one) I can't remember but were they supposed to appear when we are only level 16-17 (like I am at the moment) or were they those type of enemies that appear only after a certain level? FNV really made Reavers whimpy, nothing like the DC ones .

Post by **rbroab** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:42 am

I feel gear in DC should be rarer. It's a much less populated area. There are no gun manufacturing plants. There are no energy weapon shop families. The Mojave is backed up with the Gun Runners, and don't forget it's also a battle area between quite a few different groups.

You don't exactly stumble upon too many gun factories or factions at odds with each other besides the Enclave and Brotherhood. Not the same level as the NCR and Legion anyway.

Sorry, haven't gotten around to testing it yet. As long as it isn't too easy, and I'm not dumping multiple clips into the face of a SM, I think it'll be awesome.

Post by **frenzyslave** » Sat May 11, 2013 10:44 am

Just found out how always creamed I feel after a scrap, especially with the big lugs...

Me in my wisdom am wearing an armour from FO3 converted to TTW. Been wearing it since level 3 to 8.

I have just realised about an hour ago after ANOTHER mauling that my HUD shows a DT of zero. "Thats strange... What in the goats?", I think...

And yes, whoops. Time to change DR to DT, lol ;)

Post by **WizardOfAtlantis** » Sat May 11, 2013 11:21 am

Scarcity in the Capitol Wasteland makes perfect sense, Jax. Aside from what specialist groups perhaps bring in on their own (BoS et al), or perhaps make secretly in underground/hidden bases, you basically have the ever-dwindled supply of a 200 year-past SHTF scenario. It's one of the largest factors in SHTF scenarios that dictates your course of actions (i.e. get out of cities because of 3 days' worth of supplies in stores with no resupplying, etc). And since it hit the fan 200 years ago and there's been no mass production since, everything should be very scarce indeed. More scarce than it is, probably...by far.

The Mojave seems quaint and civilized compared to DC. You have society reformed over there...production, trade routes, and many more relatively-peaceful people. In DC, you have almost none of that.

Post by **Computerrock1** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:40 pm

Just to throw my two cents in, I think that lowering the DT on the low-level SM is a good idea, but only for the lower leveled. Going with the logic that the V87 mutants get progressively stronger and larger as they age, it's fair to reason that as they "mature" their DT would drastically increase and would evolve into a sort of mobile tank. When the pc starts out, all we have is the hunting rifle and those of us who don't use sneak, I am not one of those people, a simple one on one with a sm would result in the pc's death.

The even worse problem is that when the pc finally gets a weapon to kill the lower leveled sm, it's no longer around instead it's been replaced by its beefier and more bulletproof older brother. I imagine this all is a huge balancing act and to get it right and make everyone happy is near impossible, but I think Jax's idea is a start in the right direction.

Post by **Table Man** » Sun May 12, 2013 5:09 pm

Jax I played with your esp and I personally think it's pretty good, but I'd rather you decrease the DT on the bigger guys even further (regulars and brutes are fine) and opt for more health instead. Like I said, Super mutants are supposed to be tough, not bulletproof.

And I think my point about DT extends to power armor and a few other pieces of armor too (Col. Autumn's jacket is 12 DT!?). Personally, I think you guys kind of went overboard with the DT in a few cases, especially with power armor. You need to balance lore with gameplay here.

For example: You guys included both advanced power armor and the mark II to the enclave in FO3 (which was awesome, nice call), but you gave the Mk I 28 DT (so it matches the Remnants) and the Mk II 32 DT!!! Now, I can see why you guys did that (the enclave considers the T51b obsolete compared to their Mk I and II), but in FO3 neither the Tesla nor the Enclave's power armor were as strong as the T51b (there's even a major quest where you can find the armor). Plus, the player fights a LOT of enclave once they make their entrance. Having regular troops have such a high DT seriously limits how you can fight these guys. Plus, there are no reliable ammo and weapon vendors in CW, so armor piercing rounds and heavy hitting weapons are much harder to come by.

TL;DR Need to balance DT (within lore) and gameplay. Harder to find regular heavy hitting weapons and ammo in CW so regular troops with 32 DT are kind of nuts.

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Sun May 12, 2013 5:31 pm

@Table: I actually already did that for 2.3 (coming soon)

T-45: 22

APA1: 24

T-51: 25

APA2: 26

Tesla: 26

Remnants: 28

Hellfire: 30

Probably still needs some work. Just for the record, though, the value for Mk2 (32) was already established in NV. You can get enclave power armor in vanilla NV and it has 32DT, so the NV devs felt that the Mk2 justified 32DT.

Post by **Table Man** » Sun May 12, 2013 5:46 pm

^^ Good to hear.

In terms of the armor's ratings though, I still think you need to take the region and game into consideration. NV has a lot more high damage-per-shot weapons around than CW, and enclave are also obviously way more common in CW. If you want to address that without touching armor DT, you may have to think of changing weapons and ammo placements in the wasteland (maybe have vendors stocked up a bit more?).

P.S. since the T51b is no longer the best armor in the CW, have you considered integrating it into the CW brotherhood so that they have T51b troops like their Nevada counterparts?

P.P.S. Remember the "You gotta shoot em in the head" quest where you the main prize was the T51b? Would it be possible to swap that with some other armor now (Vault-Tech, Midwestern, etc)?

Post by **mishaxhi** » Mon May 27, 2013 2:08 am

I've found to to be far too high.

Downtown DC and it's districts are my favourite places out of both of the games, but it's unbelievably difficult to go there unprepared in TTW. Couples with the lack of doctors bags/workbenches, it kinda takes away from the whole survivalist feel that area can give.

The weapons that super mutants carry barely hurt them, so you can't scavenge as you go. You have to prepare, and prepare well, and even then if you're playing on hardcore mode you're only gonna be able to cover one or two districts at a time due to ammo weight.

I'm not sure what the solution could be. Maybe a mix of DT/DR?

Post by **Runnerblank** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:26 pm

I'll agree that in the beginning the Super Mutants are SUPER tuff.

I'm talking a clip and half of assault rifle ammo from some one who is pretty good with a gun (Skill 50+).

Sounds like you guys have a good handle on why.

My 2 cents for what it is worth is to lower the toughness of the base SMs and only slightly reducing the toughness of the rest.