Super Mutant DT

Post by **Table Man** » Fri May 10, 2013 4:43 pm

[quote=JaxFirehart]

Super mutants in both wastelands have 15DT which is the equivalent to Combat Armor. Which really is quite extreme. But the real problem is all that DT plus 100 HP. They are almost as strong as Giant Radscorpions. Personally I would drop Super Mutants down to 8 DT (little over leather armor), put the brutes at 12 (metal armor), the masters at 15 (combat armor), the overlords at 18 (little better than reinforced combat armor) and the Behemoths at 20 (combat armor reinforced mk 2). And drop their life a chunk also currently its 100, 260, 350, 800, 2000 (SM, Brute, Master, Overlord, Behemoth). I would drop it more to around 75, 125, 200, 300, 500.

Might do this and just see how it works out, but I really don't want to start ANOTHER new character...[/quote]

I think this is the best idea. I really do like the concept of them being tougher than they were originally in F03, but when a solid assault rifle like the Xuanlong can't actually penetrate their armor, then I think it's gone too far.

Yes, Supermutants are supposed to be tough, but that doesn't mean they're bullet proof. In fact I would even say that you slightly lower the DT even further on the bigger ones and opt for more health.

Cuz if you're talking about Lore, you also have to consider how the BoS in DC are armed. Even though they were having a tough time with supermutants, they could still at least take them on. As things are now, standard assault rifle-armed BoS soldiers can barely scratch the guys.

Last point: This may actually have to do with assault rifles themselves. I remember not being able to penetrate Radscorpion armor in NV with the smaller 9mm rounds, but didn't have the same problem once I got some higher caliber weapons. ATM I can't penetrate their armor with 5.56mm either.

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Fri May 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Alright here's a prototype. For the record don't consider this TTW sponsored or anything like that, just me dicking around with numbers. No guarantees. The stats are:

                             HP                  DT

Super Mutant       100                  8

Brute                    175                 12

Master                  275                 15

Overlord               400                 18

Behemoth            1000                20

Behemoth damage is currently not boosted, but may be in the future.

Post by **TrickyVein** » Fri May 10, 2013 5:57 pm

Awesome, Jax - I'm looking forward to trying this out.

Post by **rbroab** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:35 pm

Again, awesome! I know you and the team don't want to change the game and keep it how it was made for the most part, but I see TTW as a way to also fix the things that should have been fixed and make the changes that should have been made.

Just keep up the good work, I'll try this out.

Post by **Her Imperious Condescention** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:32 pm

Hmm, for dicking around with numbers, I could get into that pretty easily; as I reinstalled Fallout new Vegas as of recent (due to mod shenanigans), I'll be giving this one a try. But why did you feel the need to make a new actor effect value for the Super Mutant Master if its DT is the same as the Mariposa mutants?

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:59 pm

So that I can change it if need be without having to create another one later.

Post by **plumjuice** » Fri May 10, 2013 9:51 pm

Insta-dl. Didn't know that they were from different experiments (my Fallout lore is somewhat....lacking) Glad to know there was something that could be pointed to as a lore basis.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pewpew.

Post by **TrickyVein** » Sat May 11, 2013 12:15 am

After trying out your .esp, Jax I've decided that it nerfs mutants in the CW. I'll be disabling it.

8 DT for low-level SMs - if it was 15 before is a drastic reduction.

Post by **Risewild** » Sat May 11, 2013 12:29 am

I like Jax idea already sounds quite good.

About the weapons damage thingie people seem to forget that NV added AP ammo, I think that is the point about NV mutants, the player isn't supposed to find SM too early and it should have already some AP ammo by then, but in DC AP ammo is more rare and so it makes SM being tougher although they might not be very tough later with some levels under the belt and AP ammo . I am just stating something here, not trying to change anything or saying the tweaks shouldn't be applied I just like to point things out .

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:10 am

@TrickyVein That's your prerogative of course, I agree the drop in difficulty is steep, but this is more for people like me who want the good old days of FO3 back, when a sneak attack critical to the head with a hunting rifle was an instant kill for SM.

@Risewild I agree, with a decent amount of AP ammo, the 15DT Super Mutants go down easy enough, but with it being so sparse in the Capital Wasteland, I frequently found myself running out and wanting to go to NV to hit up the Gun Runners, and I think that is a bad thing.

Another option would be to increase the prevalence of special ammo in DC, but that would defeat the feeling of supplies being tight in DC.

Off topic, but am I the only who thinks supplies should be rarer in DC than in NV? That has been one of the main tenets of my design choices: in DC you acquire loot by going out and killing for it, not by buying it like in NV. You can eventually buy an Anti Materiel Rifle in DC, but you can go kill a high level Outcast for one much sooner.