Assault carbine ignores DT?

Post by **Lord Darx** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:31 am

(Hello there... i'm quite new to the forums and tale of two wastelands itself so sorry if this is the wrong place to ask?)

While playing i noticed that assault weapons a are highly inefficient against super mutants, doing almost no damage and almost always giving me a red shield even with a fully repaired Chinese assault rifle and with perks like grunt, but the assault carbine even at poor conditions seems to ignore the enemy DT, taking a lot of enemies easily even with the gun at poor conditions, so my question is, The Assault Carbine or the 5mm ammo ignores the enemy defense or is other thing that i don't understand?

Post by **Creamy Raccoon** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:05 am

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/5mm_round_(Fallout:_New_Vegas) this should answer your question

Post by **Lord Darx** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:15 am

Ooooh i see, the 5mm standard round have a -10 DT Effect, thanks a lot!

Post by **Decker** » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:40 pm

If you can gather together some 5.56 Armor-Piercing ammo in the game (hard to get in game, cannot be handloaded), try loading that into your Chinese Assault Rifle, it gives a DT -15 effect. Failing that, the Handloader perk allows you to craft 5.56mm match grade rounds, which give a damage x1.15 bonus - May or may not be enough to punch through supermutant hides (propably not), at any rate it does a bit more damage and is more accurate.

If you want to take down tough super mutants in the capital wasteland with a rifle more effectively, I still think your best bet would be a .308 Hunting Rifle or a Sniper Rifle. With a succesfull sneak attack critical hit, a single .308 hollow point into the head will usually one shot a mutant. Without the sneak attack bonus, a .308 JSP (can be handloaded with the Handloader perk) is very good choice of ammo. 5.56 caliber Assault Rifles are a better weapon choice against raiders and other less well armored enemies.

(Super mutants having a very tough hide (comparable to ballistic fibers) is actually a lore friendly detail all the way from the very first Fallout. IMHO Fallout 3 (and Fallout 4) had it wrong when they made their super mutants soft with DR only and no DT. It's a very good thing that TTW can fix this problem with F3 side of things.)

Post by **Lord Darx** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:15 pm

I see, thanks for the tip!

Post by **TAWM** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:30 pm

If you take bloody mess and get the mutant massacre perks from the achievements by killing a lot of supermutants a Chinese Assault Rifle or the Perferator will kill all supermutants besides behemoths very quickly. Yeah the supermutants are tough right off the bat but once get some damage perks and boost your guns skill assault weapons will put them down quickly.

Also grunt doesn't affect capital wasteland weapons and just works on New Vegas guns unless it was changed for TTW. The perks you want to get are Bloody Mess and the Mutant Massacrer perks.

Post by **Decker** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:40 am

@TAWM: I think the Grunt perk was changed for TTW to cover more guns a few versions ago already? .. In TTW 2.9.4b my high level TTW character does something like 35 points of damage per bullet with the 5.56mm Perforator (F3 unique gun from the Pitt DLC), and I don't think that could happen without the Grunt perks influence among several other things contributing as well (Guns 100, the Superior Defender perk, the Grunt perk, the Handloader perk etc) - Basic damage per round is only 10 in Fallout 3 for the Perforator. Similar effects should hold true for R-91 Assault Rifles and Chinese Assault Rifles as well (slightly less damage per round naturally, but still an increase), AFAIK.

Even so, that same high level character gets like 112 damage from a .308 Sniper Rifle, so that is still better versus the supermutants. Tends to one shot almost any target with the sneak attack modifiers thrown in as a bonus.

(Then again, I am running the game with the most excellent TTW WMX mod, which may or may not touch any gun stats or perks for F3 guns. With that mod in play the ultimate supermutant killing weapon would surely be the mighty .50 caliber heavy machinegun, if only one can feed it's appetite for destruction with sufficient supply of heavy and expensive ammo.)

Post by **Lord Darx** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:59 am

even with grunt perk and 100 guns my perforator only does 26 damage

Post by **Decker** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:45 am

@Lord Darx: In my case I just noticed I actually do get 43 damage per shot out of the Perforator if I load it with 5.56mm Match Grade rounds (from the Handloader perk). Superior Defender perk (from playing Point Lookout DLC) IIRC also adds a damage bonus to every attack, this was a +5 base dmg in F3, but may be a different bonus amount in TTW (+50% maybe?).. If any mods are touching my Perforators dmg, they'd have to be either TTW or TTW WMX because I don't have anything else that would logically touch the gun stats at all.. Hmm.. also maybe I've got some achievement perks like Lord Death affecting the weapon damages on my high level character, this is a distinct possibility because of killing thousands of hostiles so far in the game.

I don't think it is a false amount on damage per shot being shown on the pip boy either - The Perforator kills most targets fairly swiftly (in a few shots usually) unless they have some serious DT going on.

Post by **Decker** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:33 am

Come to think of it, the 5mm round itself seems inherently overpowered when compared to 5.56mm - The 5mm is supposed to be lighter and lower powered round than the 5.56mm, based on it's weight - However a 5mm out from an Assault Carbine does more damage per round than 5.56mm out from an R-91 Assault Rifle and also the 5mm gets the -10 DT effect for free.

However, when we take a closer look at the crafting components for 5mm and 5.56mm, we find out something very strange - the 5mm round requires more lead and rifle powder than the 5.56mm and somehow manages to pack all that into lower ammo weight per round.. Weird.

IRL, there is no 5mm round exactly like the one in Fallout. Closest thing in existence for real would propably be the FN 5.7x28mm PDW round (used by the P-90), which has improved bodyarmor penetration but makes notably smaller wound channels when compared to 5.56x45mm.. In FNV terms the 5.7x28mm sacrifices base damage and gains a DT penalty versus bodyarmor when compared to 5.56x45mm, same should hold true for the 5mm round which seems quite similar in principle if we go by cartridge weight - But in the game it doesn't.

I think this all translates to two main problems - 5mm rounds take a bit too much resources (lead, powder) to handload - Common sense would suggest they should take a bit less than 5.56mm. And second, the R-91 (Infiltrators and Perforators included) and Chinese Assault Rifle weapons do too low base damage per round - They should be doing something like at least +20% to +30% more than 5mm rapid fire weapons. Might be worth considering if anyone is going to do a weapons rebalance mod for TTW.

@McWarlord: Yeah, it would be slightly overpowered. Not game breaking or anything like that, it might be difficult to feed the 5mm rapid fire weapon in the early game, running out of ammo might be a frequent occurrence. Instead of actually changing the R-91 to 5mm, IMHO it would be a better idea to simply place some 5mm Assault Carbines into the early game areas in poor condition.

Another ramification of R-91 5mm mod would be that the enemies using R-91s would easily get through players bodyarmor especially in the early game.