NPCs using shotguns/automatic weapons are too susceptible to DT

[Question]

With the DT system, it is very easy for the player to hit the DT threshold of these weapons, rendering enemies with these weapons to be little more than an annoyance. in TTW that basically means every super mutant with an assault rifle or carbine of some sort (which is most of them).

What ive done in my mod is to just change the ammo type from normal shotgun rounds to slugs and normal automatic weapon ammo to AP variants but thats kind of a brute force change.

Any ideas on how to improve this for TTW?

[RoyBatty]

Go to an ammo bench, breakdown your shotgun/assault carbine ammo, make AP or Slug rounds.

[Kameraden]

[quote=RoyBatty]

Go to an ammo bench, breakdown your shotgun/assault carbine ammo, make AP or Slug rounds.

[/quote]

He means the enemies are too weak in all respects because of the Player's DT.  Issue is, it's optional really to have high DT, and most of the strongest enemies can easily get around it.  Like enclave Plasma Rifles, and Talen Company Mercs.  

He is saying though, enemies like Super Mutants which all seem to use automatic weapons just seem not to do enough damage to get past the player DT.  When I think about it definitely being the perks from Fallout 3 + New Vegas that can improve DT can make the player very Tanky in a lot of respects.  

Being I do not like using ARMOR, being able to get more DT is welcome, but it can be a problem when I do use say Power Armor, and pretty much turn indestructible.  But then again, that is kind of the point of power Armor, being it hurts you mobility badly.  

Issue is, it was possible on Fallout 3 to be almost immune to Machine Guns/Assault rifles prior to TTW if I recall when you get a DR of around 85 which was easily possible with the right perks and armor.   So in a lot of respects the issue exist in Fallout 3 before TTW.   

This likely can be improved with perhaps seeing more Super Mutants with Heavy Weapons, like Rocket Launchers, and Mini Guns perhaps.  Random Muts instead of specific ones using Heavy Weapons, make them some of the random weapons they can spawn with perhaps.  

Talen Company already starts with good Armor and Weapons, and the Enclave with their Power Armor and Plasma/Energy weapons are more dangerous than super muts.   Muts seem to only have HP on their side.  lol

[RoyBatty]

Well his wording is confusing and contradictory, so yeah.

[Thenryb]

Maybe it is that massive 8DT from the Vault 101 security armor which makes us all impervious to super mutants. 

[Question]

With DR though, it affected all weapon types equally since it was % based. Its more of a wider game problem because if you setup late game enemies to use high end weapons like hunting and riot shotguns (or gatling lasers), they cant hurt the player due to DT if using standard rounds. You dont even need to be wearing power armor, since light armor gives you enough DT to hit the damage threshold for those weapons, and thats before taking toughness or the sub dermal implant.

[TrickyVein]

Have you played that late into the game - and so, do you speak from experience - or are you just arguing theory?

[AnvilOfWar]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Threshold

Pretty much says, no one is going to be immune from damage in the New Vegas Engine, there are reductions to be sure, but you're not becoming impervious to damage. And a few things, like Deathclaws don't give a crap WHAT your DT is as they automatically bypass your armor.

[Risewild]

Yeah, basicaly if a single shot deals 10 damage, if a player has DT 11 or DT 110 it is the same, it will still cause 2 damage (because DT always lets 20% of the damage of each hit pass).

That is why Shotguns and automatic weapons deal less damage per hit (they are usually high DPS weapons and those are not to be used against armored targets, weapons with high DAM should be used instead). But I have the feeling that Fallout New Vegas enemies have the same problem, if they use those weapons against a player with high DT, so tha tis not really a TTW problem.

TTW does not want to balance the FNV game, it wants to make FO3 and it's DLCs fit with that balance.

Also TTW is still alpha version, we didn't balanced the mod yet (Mothership Zeta weapons anyone?), some things got balanced (like armors and some weapons and the removal of Point Lookout's unavoidable magic damage from enemies) but there is a way to go, first we should finish adding/removing features, balance comes after everything else is done .

[Kameraden]

[quote=Risewild]

TTW does not want to balance the FNV game, it wants to make FO3 and it's DLCs fit with that balance.

[/quote]

In all respects that is quite hard, from my experience I can see you have a lot of work and honestly I can not see how it's possible to balance Fallout 3 to work with New Vegas.   

Though mostly because how the game works. Talen Company and Regulators literally Spawn right on top of you when you exit buildings/subways, unlike Legion and NCR Patrols that spawn at a distance and come at you often with plenty of time to spot them before engaging.  

Combine that with the HUGE array of enemies on Quest/Scripted Battles.  Number of NPCs to kill are insane often in a short period of time as well, compared to New Vegas.  I think the only thing on NV that comes close to any quest on FO3 is the Hoover Dam when it comes to quantity of enemies.  In all respects by the time a player is done in FO3 and they finally go to New Vegas, New Vegas is a cake walk even at it's hardest.  Though that is because FO3 relied more on Quantity of enemies and "ACTION' lots of "ACTION" when compared to New Vegas.  

Lets say nothing on New Vegas is as challenging as getting attacked by a Albino Rad Scorpion and Death Claw at the same time, then only to have another Albino Rad Scorpion show up to the party within a few more seconds, which happened to me in the capital wasteland at like level 30 today.  Give me TWO Legion patrols at the same time when compared to that.  Ah.. Albino Rad Scorpions most OP enemy in Fallout 3.   If it had hardcore mode on I easily would of died just because you can not spam stimpaks.  hehe