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On the Subject of Power Armor Balance

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Decker
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:15 pm

Respectfully, I am of the

Post by Decker » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:05 pm

Respectfully, I am of the opinion that the armor classification (Light, Medium, Heavy) should first and foremost reflect on how heavy and relatively clumsy the armor is to move in, this way it would make the most sense.. That being said, a mere 35 Lbs of Metal Armor already counts as 'Heavy' and gives a -1 Agility penalty despite being only a partial coverage armor set with a flexible leather undersuit as a harness. Based on the lore from all of the games so far, I'd consider all types of Fallout powerarmors by their very definition as 'Heavy' armors. Exception from this rule should require a very good explanation/reasoning; What exactly makes the Tesla Powerarmor so much more faster, mobile, flexible and thinner than any other make of powerarmor? Why are there no other powerarmors in existence which would count as medium?


Note: Original Tesla Armor from Fallout 1 and 2 was basically a variant of the Metal Armor - Non-powered armor set offering extra protection versus energy attacks. This would suggest that the 'Tesla' in these tesla armors is very likely to be a rare modification or an upgrade to some metal surfaced armors. This reasoning would suggest that the NV tesla power armor would be functionally otherwise identical to the Remnants powerarmor except for its better energy protection. (Hypothetical NV tesla metal armor, which is not in the game, would also still count as heavy, because metal armors are all heavy by definition in game. Hypothetical NV Tesla Combat Armor would be Medium though.)


the 'Walking Tank' description text is propably mostly like overtly optimistic advertisement speak; 'Wearable Combat Robot' would be a more accurate description IMHO. Handheld weapons much less powerful than a missile launcher can be used to punch through Fallout powerarmors, even in Fallouts 1, 2 and NV which I would still consider as the primary lore sources (games written by the original devs)..


In F3 and F4, the walking tank term is even more strongly contrasted in gameplay by even the lightest of weapons being able to do damage through the armor - In F3 it was possible to kill Enclave powerarmor troopers with a BB gun or a knife, and in F4 it is easily possible to use a .38 pipe SMG (a cheapass gun built from random scrap, firing a fairly low power pistol round) to hose off all of the armor plates from a T-60 BOS powerarmor and thereafter killing the dumbfounded paladin wearing only the remaining skeletal powerharness. (The F3 and F4 issues stem from using the inferior 'Damage Resistance' armor gameplay mechanic, which makes all armor 'soft' with no exceptions - 'Damage Treshold' as used in F1, F2 and NV is much better.).


My opinion of Fallout powerarmor protection value order, based on lore first and gameplay second, would be like this;


Including FNV, F4, F3, F2, F1, from worst to best;


Raider, T-45, T-51, T-60, X-01, APA, Tesla PA, APA Mk II/Enclave PA, Hellfire.


 


And the same, without any F4 armors included, basically agreeing with darthbdaman's type 1 option;


T-45, T-51, APA/Remnants, Tesla PA, APA Mk II/Enclave PA, Hellfire.


(Note however, that Tesla and Hellfire IMO should not necessarily offer notably much better (just a bit better perhaps) generic protection than the previous tier overall, other than offering very specific extra protection versus energy (Tesla) and fire (Hellfire) damage types.)


 



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RoyBatty
Gary
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Vault 108

Josh Sawyer saying so is good

Post by RoyBatty » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:38 am

Josh Sawyer saying so is good enough for us for Tesla Armor.


We're not going to change the effects on armors, that's out of scope, it was purely Armor Class and DT vs DR. IMO they should have both DR and DT like previous games, but again that's out of scope for the base game.


Like we've said several times, TTW is setup as a base for easier modding and we'll encourage people to make mods to make the game how they like.


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EnderDragonFire
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:50 pm

Josh Sawyer saying so is good

Post by EnderDragonFire » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:00 am

"Josh Sawyer saying so is good enough for us for Tesla Armor. We're not going to change the effects on armors, that's out of scope."


I know its out of the scope. As I said above, I think TTW should follow the New Vegas convention regarding armor. I was saying I disagree with Sawyers' choice, not your choice to follow the example he set in New Vegas. Sawyer is not infallible, I respect him a great deal as a developer, but I don't necessarily think he gets everything right. He tends to think about his games with balance in mind, and often does things for balance sake that make no sense from a logical point of view. He works better when he has people like Chris Avallone to work with him, as part of a team. 


I just don't think that the term medium, in regards to mobility, weight, or protection, can ever be applied to any power armor model. Clearly, Sawyer disagrees with me on this. He made the game, he makes the rules, but I don't have to like them. I guess I got off topic when I began criticizing New Vegas' development decisions in a thread about TTW development decisions, sorry for any confusion I caused. 


Just so there is no confusion, I think TTW should make Tesla Armor medium armor. I hate that it was ever medium armor in NV to begin with, but TTW should still follow NV logic. 


"Who are you, who do not know your history?"



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RoyBatty
Gary
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Vault 108

I don't think he's infallable

Post by RoyBatty » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:54 am

I don't think he's infallable either, I hate the repair in vegas and the broken as hell economy.


I think it should be heavy armor, period.


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