APA MKI needs to go.

[EnderDragonFire]

I believe that the Mark I Advanced Power Armor has no place in Washington DC. I have two reasons for thinking this.

My first reason is that I feel having an armor identical in appearance to the Remnants Armor makes that armor less unique. Not to mention the fact that in Fo2 the two versions of APA were not identical in appearance. I feel that the way that it is currently implemented feel cheap/shallow and very out of sync with the rest of TTW.

Secondly, and more importantly, there are serious lore issues with having this armor appear in washington. To begin, we must remember that MKI APA is superior to T-51b. This is not reflected by the armors statistics in TTW. Another issue is the fact that if they had had this armor, the east coast Enclave would never have had to develop the new "Black Devil" power armor, which is actually weaker than T-51b and earlier APA models. Basically, it defeats the entire purpose for the  existence of the "Enclave Power Armor" from fallout 3. 

Another issue is that, in vanilla FNV, we do not know whether the Remnants actually have MKI or MKII east coast armor. If we include the MKI armor in TTW, we are de-fact declaring the remnants armor to be MKII, which does not necessarily reflect FNV lore.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that having the MKI armor in Washington creates multiple lore problems for both DC and FNV, and thus is beyond the scope of TTW. Besides that, there is not a good balance or gameplay reason for it to be there in the first place, and it actually detracts from the DC experience. If feel that it should be removed from levelled lists, so that the East Coast Enclave only uses the original Fo3 armors.

[TJ]

The black devil is actually a variant of APA MkII. The stats are off for a lot of things as we've not finalized balance for FO3. Thanks for your input though.

[EnderDragonFire]

I am aware of that. I know that the power armor found in Fo3 is a variant of MKII (a much, much weaker version). What I am less certain of is that the remnants armor is MKII, it is never explicitly stated as such, and many people, such as the Fallout Wiki, assumed it was MKI. By placing MKI in DC, you force the player to accept remnants armor to be MKII.

Also, as I stated, there is no lore reason for MKI APA to be weaker than T-51b, or for it to be in Washington. The progression fo power armor, in lore, goes like this.

T-45d < APA MKII (DC) < Tesla (DC) < T-51b < APA MKI < APA MKII (Navarro) < Hellfire

Thus, the remnants armor could be either MKI or MKII (Navarro Version) There is not MKI (DC Version), only the powerful version seen in fallout 2, which would be stronger than any DC armor except Hellfire.

[Puppettron]

can we just rename them to "totally not APA Mk I" then?

[RoyBatty]

I want the Remnants Tesla armor too :P

[EnderDragonFire]

@MarrioFan Just because you do not care about lore does not mean it can be discarded. It is very important to a lot of players. Everyone wants a different game experience, and that needs to be respected.

(P.S. New Vegas takes place 4 years after Fo3, it is conceivable, if not likely, that the courier could be the Lone Wanderer. Just like the courier could also possibly be any other fallout 3 NPC. Hell, the courier could even be Moira Brown!)

@Puppettron I am not trying to be demanding or anything. I just wanted to explain my point of view, so you could understand why I was suggesting this. You can do whatever you want to do, it's your game.

[JaxFirehart]

[quote="EnderDragonFire"]The progression fo power armor, in lore, goes like this.

 

T-45d < APA MKII (DC) < Tesla (DC) < T-51b < APA MKI < APA MKII (Navarro) < Hellfire[/quote]

According to what lore, exactly? There was no hellfire before FO3 so you cannot say one way or the other where it fits in a progression that includes West Coast APA, the two power armors have never appeared in a game together. Maybe Hellfire is weaker than West Coast APA. Maybe the East Coast enclave are a bunch of scrubs and their best attempt at Power Armor is still not as good as what the West Coast made.

Basically, the whole reason this is even a problem is because Bethesda decided to make T-51 the ultimate Power Armor in DC. The team has kicked around the idea of making the Fort Constantine T-51b a unique variant and we just haven't settled on it yet.

[TrickyVein]

[quote=EnderDragonFire]

The progression fo power armor, in lore, goes like this.

T-45d < APA MKII (DC) < Tesla (DC) < T-51b < APA MKI < APA MKII (Navarro) < Hellfire

[/quote]

Presumably you can document how this represents the relative strength of every power armor in the game, but you just haven't elected to share it with the rest of us.

It turns out that we have to make a fair number of assumptions about coming up with a progression like this. It might be lore-based, but it's not lore. 

Here are some issues with this:

T-45d units and Enclave PA have the same base DR in Fallout 3. Enclave PA has more HP than T-45d, so does that make it categorically better? T-51b and Hellfire units have the exact same DR and HP in Fallout 3. Which is better?

Try and compare DR values with DT values. They're entirely different quantities. T51-b units in NV have 25 DT. How is 25 DT better than 43 DR? There's no documentation for when Tesla PA was developed and what its relative strength might be. The same goes for Hellfire armor. 

Is it OK to ignore the AC, DR, and DT values for the T-51b, APA MKI and MKII models as they're represented in Fallout 1 and 2?

[TJ]

This is another one of those "My preference is this, and I'm presenting my preference as fact so it should be done to my preference" threads.

[RoyBatty]

It's easy enough to just make a mod the removes it and rebalances the other Armors to suit what you think it should be.