Barkskin Perk/Spell Still Using DR

[chasing]

It seems very similar to the Subdermal Armor perk/implant, moreso than the Toughness perk, I think.  In FNV, they both give DT (+4 and +3 respectively).  The Toughness perk used to give +10% DR in FO3, though.

Is there a precedent or rule already set regarding how TTW should back-port these types of changes, similar to how FNV handled them (i.e. since FNV changed Toughness from DR to DT, should TTW do the same with Barkskin)?

[JaxFirehart]

In my honest opinion (not firmly held) it should remain DR, but only because I think it should be differentiated from toughness. Were I open to modifying the Toughness perk (I'm not) I would actually make Toughness DR and Barkskin DT. As you can see I am conflicted. I would love to see a logical, perhaps numerical, argument for DR/DT and what amount.

There are a fair amount of armors in TTW that are not in FNV. A lot of those had very obvious parallels that could be drawn (Talon Combat Armor is obviously repainted Combat Armor). Some weren't and we were forced to find its closes neighbor that exists in both games and extrapolate from there.

Were we to follow that pattern, then Barkskin should be +3DT because the original Toughness-Barkskin ratio was 2-1. The unpleasant problem with that line of reasoning was that Toughness has been changed from 1 rank to 2. In FO3 Barkskin was given a "rank" of half a perk. If we set Barkskin to +3 DT it becomes equal to one whole perk. If we set it to +2 it is a bit more than half a perk. +1 is a bit less than half a perk. Considering the Toughness-Barkskin ratio and the "half a perk" measure, I believe that +2DT is the best compromise and best solution.

[retlaw83]

Heard back from MCA. He apologized and said that he had little input on the mechanics in the base game - his mechanics were mainly in the DLCs - and that he doesn't know if DR in NV is an oversight. He went on to say that DT/DR combining worked in Fallout 2 so there's no reason it can't work in modern Fallout.



I think the discussion we need to have is how does DR affect the flow of the game and does that improve the experience. As TTW moves more away from making vanilla work right - which is what we're almost done doing - these kind of content and balance discussion are going to be had more frequently. We're moving from a groundwork phase into a design phase since 2.4, in my opinion.

[JaxFirehart]

Wow. Holy crap. Did not expect him to respond.

I already laid out my opinions above and stand by them, just wanted to register my surprise!

[TJ]

2 DT it is then.

[JaxFirehart]

Unless somebody has another idea/reason why.

[Risewild]

Well, I seem to be on the losing side here because I really don't see why would we have yet another thing giving DT since it is so easy to get a huge DT in game with all the great armors around. DR is still in game and not only in chems either, the rebreather, vault 11 jumpsuit and the scientist outfit also give DR, I really see no reason to change barkskin from DR to DT to be honest, seems to me it is an unnecessary change . Also if we change Barkskin we would probably have to change the Superior Defender one, the Survival Expert, the Pitt Fighter and the Cyborg one too (I am not sure if any of those already got DR changed to DT in TTW though) again I think it is too many changes for something that I don't understand why should be changed specially because in Fallout NV many NPC's have DR too and those can reach 30 DR, so why can't the player have some permanent DR too? Also DR maximum value can only be 85, so even if these perks still give DR and using the chems to add more, there is no way to get more than 85 so I don't think it is OP to have DR and DT (although this game allows the PC to be OP very easily anyway).

[collapsed title=NPC's with DR in FNV courtesy of The Fallout Wiki]

• 
  All companions if using Ferocious Loyalty.


• 
  Sunny Smiles (10% DR)


• 
  Ranger Stella (10% DR)


• 
  Legion vexillarius (10% DR)


• 
  Praetorian guards (10% DR)


• 
  Lucius (10% DR)


• 
  Certain Legionary assassins (10% DR)


• 
  Ulysses (10% DR)


• 
  Blister (10% DR)


• 
  Beast (10% DR)


• 
  Bonesaw (10% DR)


• 
  Blade (10% DR)


• 
  Colonel Royez (10% DR)


• 
  Gaius Magnus (10% DR)


• 
  Mean Sonofabitch (20% DR)


• 
  Motor-Runner (20% DR)


• 
  Nightkin (30% DR)


• 
  Dog (but not God) (30% DR)


• 
  Certain NCR Rangers (30% DR)


• 
  NCR Veteran Rangers (30% DR)

[/collapsed]

I would hate a Fallout with only DT and seems like TTW is going in that direction, but that is just me complaining since I am a big fan of older fallout games and loved how AC, DT and DR all worked together in perfect harmony, so just feel free to ignore my ramblings .

[plumjuice]

FWIW I think that it should be left as DR but turned into DT along with an accompanying change of toughness to DR as an optional extra or merged into the TTW Perk Changes or whatever the mod was called. Rise does makes a good point about the other perks that still give DR.

Mind you, thats only temporary. BRING ON THE BALANCE FLAME WARS

[JaxFirehart]

Are there any NV perks that give DR?

[Risewild]

There are for NPC's not for the PC that is another reason I say the PC deserve some DR too .