LOB Skill Book removals

[th1nk]

I understand removing skill books from various areas, but the Chinese Army Stealth Manual in LOB Enterprises sort of seems like it would fit, and removing both skill books from an area with two seems kind of pushing it, IMO.



Just an opinion, though.



e: Also, the terminal entries still refer to 10mm ammunition for the Zhu-Rong v418.

[JaxFirehart]

We were limiting ourselves to the same amount of books as in FNV, so we had to REALLY cut back on placement, a lot of places that made sense lost them, unfortunately. If you want to propose a book to be removed in order to add one back into LOB, I'm all for it, so long as there isn't a better reason for where the book already is.

The list is here.

[paragonskeep]

[quote=JaxFirehart]

 

We were limiting ourselves to the same amount of books as in FNV, so we had to REALLY cut back on placement, a lot of places that made sense lost them, unfortunately. If you want to propose a book to be removed in order to add one back into LOB, I'm all for it, so long as there isn't a better reason for where the book already is.

The list is here.

[/quote]

I'd see the one at LOB instead of the Nuka plant. Seems to fit better IMO

[th1nk]

Then again, unless there's something at chinese mobile command HQ that precludes it being there, that might be even more deserving... The Nuka Cola one seems an odd one to keep, though (unless I'm missing something), as paragonskeep said. I'll have to poke around those places again - I spend a lot more time in the Mojave so my memory of FO3 locations is foggy at best.



Also, as a side note, counting Paradise Lost towards the limit for Lying, Congressional Style causes the collector/hoarder in me vast pain :P



@Mariofan17: I don't really want to get onto the topic of game balance, but I guess it's worth mentioning that the same number of skill books spread over a larger number of quests means a lot of those quests will be done with slightly lower skills (as long as you're playing "normally") (e: Oh wow, didn't even notice that it's the same amount per wasteland and the list is just CW ones, and not the NV amount shared between both. That makes a lot more sense). Still, I'm really not that fussed with that - I'm doubt that decision is budging anyway (and game balance has never been my strong point). I'm not sure why you're mentioning multiple books that "dont really fit either or", though?

[Question]

IMHO I think more of the TTW skill books could be better placed in quest related locations. For example, if you look at NV, a decent number of the skill books are placed in quest related locations so its relatively easy to get them just by doing quests.

IIRC, you can get the following early on without any major detours :

-Sneak book in Good springs

-Repair and Explosives book in Sloan

-Speech book in NCR CF

-Explosives book in the Mojave Outpost

-Science in the Nipton hall

-Barter in the bison steve hotel

-Guns in the nevada patrol station

-Unarmed in the nipton road pitstop

Most of the TTW skill books seem to be either in out of the way places like broadcast stations that most players wouldnt stumble onto unless they were specifically looking for it or non-quest related areas in DC like Mama Dolce or the Charnel House.

[JaxFirehart]

[collapsed title=Skill Book Breakdown]

3/5 Science are in quest related locations (Megaton, Mergold Metro, Vault-Tec HQ)

2/5 Sneak (Penn. Avenue, Nuka-Cola Factory)

2/5 Medicine (Big Town, Our Lady of Hope)

3/5 Repair (Anchorage Memorial, Andale, Canterbury Commons)

2/5 Explosives (Evergreen Mills, Old Olney)

1/5 Melee Weapons (V101 birthday)

3/5 Guns (Arlington Library, Citadel, Hamilton's Hideaway)

2/5 Speech (Meresti Trainyard, Nuka cola Plant)

2/5 Energy Weapons (Museum of Tech., Robot Repair Center)

2/5 Hand to Hand (Springvale, Warrington Station)

1/5 Barter (Little Lamplight)

2/5 Lockpick (Meresti Trainyard, Minefield)

1/5 Survival (Anchorage Memorial)

[/collapsed]

So that's approx. 40% of the books are in quest locations. They may not be right there in front of your face (some are) or handed out as quest rewards (some are) but in almost any quest location it is worth your while to explore a bit.

Disclaimer: This was done from memory, I'm almost positive I that I missed a few locations that are quest based, so it might actually be MORE books are in quest locations.

[RoyBatty]

FO3 is still about exploration, and not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. Personally I f'in hate that about Skyrim and I don't want to see that ever in Fallout 3 , NV or TTW.

[th1nk]

I'm actually of a slightly different opinion - I've felt skill books are often used as "rewards" for exploring - certainly a lot of locations don't have much else worth existing for, so those as a result of quests are kind of redundant in that regard. A few of the places I recognize off the top of my head are those sorts of places already though, so it's not really a complaint, just my 2c. I realise how difficult it is to make these decisions in the first place.

[JaxFirehart]

Well, honestly, the list we have now was only meant to be an initial stab at it, the team is not averse to moving them about if a decent reason can be given.

[Question]

Exploring is a tricky thing. I mean yes, you can put a shack in the middle of nowhere with a skill book to get players to go there (which NV does a lot). But most players are not going to go there unless they know the book is there, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to wander around in the middle of nowhere in the hopes that you find something worthwhile.

I mean, how many of us spend hours in the countryside just running around hoping to find buried treasure?

Most players dont have infinite time and would only go to the out of way places if there's something that makes them go there, like a quest. Putting a book in some out of the way place means that most people are just going to look up the information somewhere and go there specifically for the book. That kind of defeats the purpose of exploring IMHO.

To put it another way, imagine if you were to make a mod that creates a new location somewhere, but you don't tell people anything about it and just say "go explore!". How many people are going to download it to explore? Probably not very many.

You would probably need some kind of dynamic system to get players to really go out and explore, without knowing what is there waiting for them, but the rewards would have to be worth it of course. But that would be pretty hard to do properly.

Just my thoughts on exploring.

P.S. The spreadsheet says moonbeam cinemas has a skill book but im looking at it in the GECK and there doesnt appear to be any there?