question about More Perks Mod and general save bloat issues.

[UnorthodoxDoctor]

Hey, I made an account for this because I'm honestly curious as to why the More Perks mod is considered incompatible? It mentions only that it's buggy and redundant for certain perks. I've heard it can cause Save bloat, and on that topic what mods are there that you know of that can cause save bloat?

Blog section feel free to skip, I recently finished a grand playthrough of ttw, fnv and the frontier it was amazing but I did notice my save file getting huge! Approximately 42mb does this come with the territory or is there a way to mitigate and avoid it?

[Bullfrog]

I used More Perks with FNV and didn't notice any bad bugs. With TTW I don't need it anymore, as TTW has a lot of perks (including redundant ones with More Perks) and I already have to decide which perks are more important to me than others. Any mod causes "save bloat", because some of its data gets stored in the savegame. More Perks is no exception. If I ever decided to use More Perks together with TTW, I would do a good cleanup of the mod first, to get rid of redundant perks and perks which are covered by other features now. For example the "Run Like the Wind!" perk isn't really needed anymore, as speed increase is now covered by having more agility.

The size of every savegame will increase over time. The more mods you use, the bigger it will get, especially with mods that add cells/world spaces. JIPLN contains a feature that should block storing the position of havok enabled objects in the savegame, if the cell has a special flag on it. I can't tell if it really makes a big difference.
Last time I checked a savegame on my previous TTW playthrough, its size was around 55MB. That is to be expected with the amount of mods that I use, including things like AWoP for FO3 and NV, TTW Interiors, Another Interior Mod and Alton IL.

[UnorthodoxDoctor]

I suppose that makes sense that it's all in degrees of save bloat. While I have your ear, is EVE considered aggregious when it comes to save bloat? Also you talked about cutting out redundant perks from more perks, how would one go about doing that and is there a side by side comparison for the two?

[The Many]

More Perks was made in 2010 without the benefit of script extenders or any of the other modern tools we have to make mods that don't suck.A significant amount of the perks don't even work as intended or have very poor implementation & it's riddled with typos and other mistakes. If you wanted to use those perks you could simply use More Perks Reimagined by Voidwalker who has already done the work of recreating it with modern standards.

I used More Perks with FNV and didn't notice any bad bugs.

You should be aware that "works on my machine" is a meme. Not noticing issues does not negate the existence of issues, and this is true to the extent that it usually isn't worth vocalizing the thought at all, as people will be prone to mock it.

[UnorthodoxDoctor]

Thanks for the explination that actually makes a lot of sense. I also appreciate the reccomendation.

[The Many]

Thanks for the explination that actually makes a lot of sense. I also appreciate the reccomendation.

No problem. If you would like some recommendations for working mods of all different kinds, check out my Wasteland Survival Guide. It's made specifically for the latest version of TTW and all mods are 100% compatible.

[Bullfrog]

You should be aware that "works on my machine" is a meme. Not noticing issues does not negate the existence of issues, and this is true to the extent that it usually isn't worth vocalizing the thought at all, as people will be prone to mock it.

So what? You might as well say "Stop playing Fallout New Vegas, because it has bugs". That's just ridiculous. People can still enjoy something, even if it isn't built by the latest standards. Every piece of software has bugs and issues, current mods are no exception. I noticed quite a number of issues in TTW. Still, I'm enjoying it and recommend it to other people.

So keep mocking if it makes you feel better.

[The Many]

You should be aware that "works on my machine" is a meme. Not noticing issues does not negate the existence of issues, and this is true to the extent that it usually isn't worth vocalizing the thought at all, as people will be prone to mock it.

So what? You might as well say "Stop playing Fallout New Vegas, because it has bugs". That's just ridiculous. People can still enjoy something, even if it isn't built by the latest standards. Every piece of software has bugs and issues, current mods are no exception. I noticed quite a number of issues in TTW. Still, I'm enjoying it and recommend it to other people.

So keep mocking if it makes you feel better.

What's ridiculous is for people to keep using mods from 2010 because they don't know better alternatives already exist. There's no point in saying that you didn't notice issues when the issues have been known to exist for the better part of a decade; it's only going to confuse people about whether or not they should use that mod. If you ran into a lot of issues in TTW it's probably because you were using similarly outdated mods with it. Anyway, I didn't mock you did I? I'm pointing out that "I didn't notice any problems" is a cliche in the modding community as a courtesy; it's up to you what you want to do with that information.

[Bullfrog]

If you ran into a lot of issues in TTW it's probably because you were using similarly outdated mods with it.

Actually no. I ran into a lot of such issues because TTW itself had/has bugs. Why do you think there are new versions of TTW with tons of fixes in them? Most of the time it's nothing serious that stops progress or anything. Sometimes it broke/breaks a quest, but I have the skills to analyze and fix that myself. That's why I can even use some of these mods from the incompatible mod list. I simply adapted them to TTW. On top of that, I started reporting my findings and corresponding fixes here, so the TTW bugs I find, can be resolved as well.

[RoyBatty]

1/2 the perks in it don't even work, or use unimplemented/broken entry points.

There are no longer any game breaking bugs in TTW as far as we are aware. Such things should be reported asap with how to reproduce. We tend NOT to take bug reports from people using old and outdated and broken mods because it's often a wild goose chase and the bugs are almost always caused by those mods. That wastes our time and yours.

Works for me is not a valid position. I'm not mocking you at all, please try to understand from the developers point of view. We (mostly me personally) have marked these things as incompatible for very good reasons, 99.9% of users cannot fix the issues they make, you are an exception to this rule. You are also often incorrect about balance changes and other things which I try to correct you on, but you take it as an affront or insult instead of going, oh yeah I defer to people with greater knowledge of the thing they made. Which we also take as an insult sometimes considering many of us have dedicated more than 10000 hours to learning how the game works and fixing bugs in it, and yes they are indeed endless, we are not any more perfect than Bethesda or Obsidian. What I can say is that there is a great many LESS bugs than their offerings.

We've also made it perfectly clear that TTW is it's own thing, we don't care not subscribe to "it has to be compatible". You can't fix stuff AND make it compatible. It's impossible. So we tossed the notion of that in 2016. People can do what you are doing, make patches, but we're not going to especially when we don't like or want to use those mods ourselves. I personally, do not understand this mentality. If you want to use them, play vanilla, be happy, enjoy your game. The whole "I'm gonna use this anyways, then annoy the TTW devs because they say X doesn't work, or I found that X breaks my game" is completely unreasonable.