[quote=CraigTBoone]
I vote yes. But don't do anything the original Fallout 3 didn't. That thing you were talking about with the ammo, I don't remember it doing that in the original Fallout 3 game. Maybe do that if they're on hardcore mode?
Wouldn't mind NVSE as long as it doesn't make the game even more unstable.
[/quote]
Didn't you refuse to use Grib's VMW mod because it uses NVSE?
My project Dash is on Kickstarter!
I can only assume he had a revelation.
As for the topic at hand, I don't understand why this is even an issue: If it makes it easier to develop TTW then it should be used at the discretion of the dev team. Period.
I don't think installing nvse should be automated. Expanding on the idea of making it "easier" for the end user would mean the ttw patcher should install FO3 and NV for you (if you have hard copies) so you don't have to go to all the trouble of using separate installers. Hey, maybe it should have boss and FNVEdit built in so it can sort your load order with a predefined custom userlist and clean the dlc esms. Maybe defraggler and an antivirus. I've seen some people missing C++ redistributable files, maybe the patcher should contain all the libraries ever released, as well as those for DirectX and the latest drivers for every graphics card ever made. What if the user doesn't have windows installed yet? It should probably have that in there too.
Or, instead of hodge-podging other people's work and proprietary code, and shitting on other modders' goodwill, we get the user to do a minute amount of clicking for what will take, at absolute most, 60 seconds.
Read before asking for help. Please. >>>>>> http://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/read-asking-help
[quote=tjmidnight420]
[quote=CraigTBoone]
I vote yes. But don't do anything the original Fallout 3 didn't. That thing you were talking about with the ammo, I don't remember it doing that in the original Fallout 3 game. Maybe do that if they're on hardcore mode?
Wouldn't mind NVSE as long as it doesn't make the game even more unstable.
[/quote]
Didn't you refuse to use Grib's VMW mod because it uses NVSE?
[/quote]
Yes because every time I use NVSE, the game just goes to utter shit.
The game is already unstable, and attaching NVSE to the engine can only make things worse since it has to forward every script call to the NVSE parser, and time critical functions could be either thread starved or run too early/late.
[quote=CraigTBoone]Yes because every time I use NVSE, the game just goes to utter shit.[/quote]
That would be pretty much impossible as NVSE does nothing on its own. Which means that in order for things to get messed up, you had to add something to get it messed up.
[quote=CraigTBoone]The game is already unstable, and attaching NVSE to the engine can only make things worse since it has to forward every script call to the NVSE parser...[/quote]
That's, not even remotely accurate, but ok. The scripts are already compiled and set by the game engine when saved in GECK. NVSE injects itself into the game as the game starts, so as far as the game is concerned, the NVSE functions are the same as the ones it came with, the engine cannot tell the difference (unless NVSE is missing of course).
[quote=CraigTBoone]...time critical functions could be either thread starved or run too early/late.[/quote]
:)) :)) I think the funniest thing I've seen today, and I just read a pretty hilarious comic from start through to current. The gamebryo engine runs a single thread for all scripts. In case you aren't aware, this means that no script can run concurrent with another. Not only that, but unlike Skyrim, which does actually thread and queue scripts, gamebryo waits for every single script to finish in turn. Why do you think a bad script will crash the game? It's not the game that failed, it's the scripter.
As far as gamebryo is concerned, there's no such thing as a "time critical" function. Every script runs every frame, end of story, roll credits, close curtains.
So the only reason to not use NVSE is if someone has a cracked game that can't run it. And as that's illegal and we don't care anyway, there's no issue here.
Does NVSE introduce a scripting function for applying ice? Because that was a serious burn.
Jax, Ultimately for good or bad this is your call. But as pointed out the majority of us are already using NVSE so my vote is YES. It will add to your ease of adding content and to add even more awesomeness so yea go for it
what paragon (and many others have said), if it makes Jax's life easier, use NVSE. i don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to use it. installation and use is easy enough (as long as you [acronym=Read The Fucking Manual]RTFM[/acronym]), and the advantages are enormous.
unless they are some kind of hardcore vanilla fanatics, in which case they wouldn't be running mods anyway 
so, consider this another vote for YES
I didn't vote when I meant to a while ago so here it is: I'd say yes to NVSE. Most people use NVSE. The few people who don't use NVSE but want to use TTW will either
This is all just my opinion, of course.
[quote=Gribbleshnibit8]
[quote=CraigTBoone]Yes because every time I use NVSE, the game just goes to utter shit.[/quote]
That would be pretty much impossible as NVSE does nothing on its own. Which means that in order for things to get messed up, you had to add something to get it messed up.
[quote=CraigTBoone]The game is already unstable, and attaching NVSE to the engine can only make things worse since it has to forward every script call to the NVSE parser...[/quote]
That's, not even remotely accurate, but ok. The scripts are already compiled and set by the game engine when saved in GECK. NVSE injects itself into the game as the game starts, so as far as the game is concerned, the NVSE functions are the same as the ones it came with, the engine cannot tell the difference (unless NVSE is missing of course).
[quote=CraigTBoone]...time critical functions could be either thread starved or run too early/late.[/quote]
:)) :)) I think the funniest thing I've seen today, and I just read a pretty hilarious comic from start through to current. The gamebryo engine runs a single thread for all scripts. In case you aren't aware, this means that no script can run concurrent with another. Not only that, but unlike Skyrim, which does actually thread and queue scripts, gamebryo waits for every single script to finish in turn. Why do you think a bad script will crash the game? It's not the game that failed, it's the scripter.
As far as gamebryo is concerned, there's no such thing as a "time critical" function. Every script runs every frame, end of story, roll credits, close curtains.
So the only reason to not use NVSE is if someone has a cracked game that can't run it. And as that's illegal and we don't care anyway, there's no issue here.
[/quote]
[code]WriteProcessMemory(process, (LPVOID)(hookBase), hookCode, sizeof(hookCode), &bytesWritten);
HANDLE thread = CreateRemoteThread(process, NULL, 0, (LPTHREAD_START_ROUTINE)hookBase, (void *)(hookBase + 5), 0, NULL);[/code]
The GameByro scripting engine in itself runs inline in the game. Most of the game is coded in C++, while the rest of it is done dynamically through the in-game scripting engine. Take for example the slot machines. There's a minigame thread that is constantly ran and created/destroyed. The minigame governor runs in the C++ code, while the drawing and interaction code are done through the scripting engine, which then calls the C++ relative functions. So for a skiddie like yourself, let me break it down. DURPADURP FUNCTION, DURAPDURP SCRIPT (YOU KNOW THIS PART) DURPADURP RESULT, DURPADURP RETURN. SOOO HURRRD. If you'd actually reverse Fallout New Vegas, you'd know how this works, but you don't, because you just script.
Good honest debates are fine but these kind of attacks will not be tolerated! This is a WARNING keep it civil!
chucksteel
[quote=thermador]
Jax, one other thought on NVSE - could we make NVSE optional? Like put some logic in the scripts like:
if (NVSE is present)
then (some NVSE stuff)
else (NVSE is not present)
then (best non-NVSE workaround)
[/quote]
This sounds like the best option thus far. (Although it sounds like it would take the most time as well...)
Personally though i wouldn't play any Beth game without NVSE, or any other similar script extender. The main reason i converted from console was to greatly enhance my experience, and most mods that do just that, need script extenders. After years of playing on the PS3, and having to deal with a crash nearly every half hour, when toward endgame, on either Fallout's. The FAR less frequent PC crashes don't bother me. 
