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CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Shotgun Shell

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Gribbleshnibit8
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:06 am

charwo wrote:

Post by Gribbleshnibit8 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:34 am

[quote=charwo]


The Combat Shotgun is a terrible weapon and should be taken out entirely. It's design is awful: the port is AHEAD of the barrel grip, wasting half the gun's barrel length. The only way to save the turkey is to take the basic design of the gun and remesh it to be a bullpup and full auto outside vats. Other than that, the gun should be replaced with Hunting shotguns, either by changing the spawnlists, or maybe just making the Combat Shotgun into a dilapidated Hunting shotgun, with lots of chicken wire rust and duct-tape. The Combat Shotgun in Anchorage should be changed to either a Riot Shotgun or a Pancor Jackhammer, roughly in line with it's Fallout 2 stats:


http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer_%28Fallout_2%29


[/quote]


[quote=JaxFirehart]Charwo: We aren't in the habit of removing vanilla content because we don't like it.[/quote]


That's what mods are for!



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RoyBatty
Gary
Posts: 7742
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:26 am
Location: Vault 108

Use the WMX new weapons and

Post by RoyBatty » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:11 am

Use the WMX new weapons and make it an AA-12, that's what I do :>


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Risewild
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:14 am

charwo wrote:

Post by Risewild » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:27 am

[quote=charwo]


 


The Combat Shotgun is a terrible weapon and should be taken out entirely. It's design is awful: the port is AHEAD of the barrel grip, wasting half the gun's barrel length. The only way to save the turkey is to take the basic design of the gun and remesh it to be a bullpup and full auto outside vats. Other than that, the gun should be replaced with Hunting shotguns, either by changing the spawnlists, or maybe just making the Combat Shotgun into a dilapidated Hunting shotgun, with lots of chicken wire rust and duct-tape. The Combat Shotgun in Anchorage should be changed to either a Riot Shotgun or a Pancor Jackhammer, roughly in line with it's Fallout 2 stats:


http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer_%28Fallout_2%29


[/quote]


I guess you can always grab some mods like these:


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/47528/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/55467/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/36407/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/55704/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/48097/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/47556/?


http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/48064/?


(I am sure there are plenty more custom made shotguns in the nexus) smiley


And replace the combat shotguns ingame with the weapons from those mods.


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paragonskeep
Posts: 738
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:19 pm

I use the "City Killer" mod

Post by paragonskeep » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:23 am

I use the "City Killer" mod myself which replaces it just fine. 


Just don't complain when Talon company unloads on you with one or three. :)


If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

charwo
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:14 pm

While I understand the notion

Post by charwo » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm

While I understand the notion to respect designer's decisions, which isn't quite lore, but very close, a certain amount of rationalization is required when putting two games together that should have shared the same 2077 together. There are huge problems with this:


1. The design problems with the "Combat Shotgun" I mentioned above.


2. The Riot Shotgun, presumably for riots, is much, much, MUCH more powerful.


3. The combat shotgun, if it is a military grade combat weapon, is WAY too common in the CW to be the weapon of any asshole raider. It would make sense if the raiders generally had Hunting Shotguns, which would be as common as sand in the the pre-war era, and much more simple to build in post war machine shops.


4. Lore has already been countermanded, and in a good way, by giving Overlords LMGs instead of Tri-Beams, and the gameplay is MUCH more immersive for it.


But, in praise of the the Combat Shotgun's niche: I LOVE it as a 20 gauge platform, and could see it as an actual combat platform, but mechanically it needs either a three round burst or full auto and a larger magazine (a 20 gauge military platform over a 12 gauge has the same dynamitic of the 5.56 over the 7.62), and it needs to be remeshed. The problems with me doing an individual replacement are 1. Lore loves wood stocks and 2. the point was never 'I don't like it', it is that we know what it takes for a firearm to work properly, and among the standardized firearms, this is the only one that is so badly designed it has no real world counterpart. If it's supposed to look like the PPSh-41 fine, but it needs to the magazine placement where the PPSh has it:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41


Magazine receivers do NOT go in the middle of the barrel. It defeats the purpose of the barrel. This isn't an energy weapon, whose designs are all speculative by necessity. No government in their right minds would buy a combat shotgun as currently designed, and even an incompetent government (which the proto-Enclave WAS NOT) could not hope to avoid scandal.



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Ignoring the cosmetic issues,

Post by JaxFirehart » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:42 pm

Ignoring the cosmetic issues, which I agree are present, there is a valid reason for the two different shotguns. The Riot Shotgun was probably issued to police/SWAT or the like; it is 12ga to accommodate tear gas shells and similar. The Combat Shotgun was issued to the military, specifically the navy (due to the heavy naval presence in DC); it is 20ga for the reasons Copper Hamster mentioned, namely: it is more maneuverable and the smaller pellets are less likely to penetrate interior walls; both properties that would be useful in the confined quarters of a military ship.



TJ
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Better Looking Combat Shotgun

Post by TJ » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:45 pm

My project Dash is on Kickstarter!



rylasasin
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:37 am

Well now it looks like a 20

Post by rylasasin » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:15 pm

Well now it looks like a 20 gauge ppsh (not that it doesn't anyway, but now it's much closer.)


Anyway, back to the topic at hand: Shotgun shells, and as long as we're at it .32 cal bullets, should have a breakdown recipe. Because even with the team's attempts at removing them from leveled lists they still do appear. Having a breakdown recipe for them means they at least have some sort of use.


Unlike other breakdown recipies though they should breakdown completely, as in break down in to as much parts as you would need to make new. 



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

That's a good idea, as a

Post by JaxFirehart » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:43 pm

That's a good idea, as a backup, gonna put that on the bug tracker.



TJ
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:06 pm

rylasasin wrote:Because even

Post by TJ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:45 pm

[quote=rylasasin]Because even with the team's attempts at removing them from leveled lists they still do appear. [/quote]


That's a mod error, not a TTW error. Check your converted FO3 mods for ones that use those ammos.


As a counter argument to supporting those ammos: Instead of breakdown recipes we should script those ammos to silently remove themselves and add more appropriate ammo, as a last resort kind of fallback.


Plus it's less work on the guy who's currently doing the recipes. wink


My project Dash is on Kickstarter!



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