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Even More Trouble On The Homefront

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RighteousFist
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:55 am

Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RighteousFist » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:54 pm

Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered, but I searched the forums and was unable to find a solution to a series of serious glitches involving the quest Trouble On The Homefront, when starting a TTW game in New Vegas.

Basically, it seems that if you start your game in New Vegas, and then return to the Capital Wasteland and attempt to do the quest Trouble On The Homefront, things get really wacky because the triggers for leaving Vault 101 were never updated/removed to indicate that the player character is "returning" to the Vault, and never left yet. In short, when I tried to do the quest, I encountered some really weird glitches because the triggers are being forced to fire BACKWARDS, one of which seems to have affected my game permanently.

When returning to Vault 101 from starting in New Vegas, the player will pass through the trigger that activates the Vault door. In the original game, this is the trigger that's supposed to close the door behind them when leaving Vault 101 for the first time, but if you start your game in New Vegas and are coming TO the Vault, as opposed to leaving the vault, the trigger still fires and will open the door instead.

The problem is that Vault 101 will be in the same state it was in when your character was supposed to have been a child - because you see, the game doesn't know that you never actually "left" the vault (those quest triggers never fired). Vault 101 will be completely empty. No NPCs, no quest triggers, no nothing. What's worse, if you then activate the door controls inside the vault, and close the door to Vault 101 while inside, you will be sealed inside the empty vault forever, with no way out, because the inside door controls then become inactive! I had to reload a save to escape!

The way I was able to get the quest "Trouble On The Homefront" to activate correctly was to approach the vault door, which triggers the script that simply "activates" the door. Since the door is closed by default, it opened. Remember, that trigger is supposed to be the trigger that closes the door when you first leave Vault 101, but since you are returning from New Vegas, it activates the door and does things in reverse, thus opening the door instead. Afterwards, I activated the door controls inside Vault 101, and ran outside as fast as I could before the door closed.

THIS is when the game finally recognizes that your character has "left" Vault 101, and THEN you can enter the password "AMATA" on the outside door controls, and re-enter Vault 101 as it's supposed to be, populated by the present day NPCs and their conflict with the overseer. HOWEVER, this is where things got really weird.

Rex and EDE were there. Inside the Vault, just chilling in the hallways. They were NOT companions at the time I traveled to the Vault, and I had left them in New Vegas. However, I found both Rex and EDE inside Vault 101, just waiting around like they had always been right there, totally freaking me out. Am I correct in assuming the TTW developers used Vault 101 as "holding cells" for non-human companions??? Otherwise, I have no idea whatsoever how they "teleported" themselves from New Vegas into the hallways of Vault 101.

Second, a more serious and permanent glitch happened after doing the bugged Trouble On The Homefront quest - Dogmeat has apparently become a permanent member of my party, and I can't get rid of him! No matter where I go, Dogmeat is always there! Any door I walk through, Dogmeat is there, and begins walking away like he's going back to Vault 101. And what's worse, I can't speak to him. He speaks to me instead. When I initiate dialogue with Dogmeat, he says, "What do you need?", like he's a human NPC, and then I can only tell him to go mark his spot, or say goodbye. Other than that, he's always there, walking away, and sometimes sitting down.

I tried to get rid of him by beginning DLCs - and even that doesn't work. Dogmeat "shadowed" me all the way through Operation Anchorage, and is now "shadowing" me through Point Lookout. I can't get rid of Dogmeat, I can't tell him to go home, I can't tell him to wait - Dogmeat has become permanently "tied" to my character. And he really is there, because he will join combat and fight enemies, but otherwise just starts walking away whenever I enter a new cell, like some dog ghost haunting me.

Any suggestions on what to do about this glitch? I've disabled every mod I'm using that otherwise affects companions, to no avail. And, Dogmeat seems to be the only companion affected. All other companions are still behaving normally, and this only started after doing the bugged Trouble On The Homefront quest.

One final suggestion about this bugged quest, when playing a TTW game beginning in New Vegas. As you approach Vault 101 when coming from Vegas, I noticed that the bright light and music that plays when you first step out of the Vault and into the Wasteland for the first time is still triggered. I have some modding experience, and I'm guessing that this is because the player character is passing through the trigger that causes this effect to happen when they are supposed to be leaving the Vault for the first time (when starting in the Capital Wasteland).

This would be an EXCELLENT opportunity to "transport" the player character "back in time", and have them play the quests while they were growing up (such as the quest Growing Up Fast), that are otherwise lost and skipped when starting in New Vegas, to sort of reacquaint them with their roots as a flashback sequence.

I imagine the scripting would have to be similar to the scripting that fires when entering Tranquility Lane, having your inventory removed, and being forced to play as a child. It could work much the same for the quests Growing Up Fast, Future Imperfect, and Escape!

As you approach Vault 101 after starting your game in New Vegas, and receive the distress call from Amata that begins Trouble On The Homefront, WHEN you approach Vault 101 for the "first" time, begin a flashback sequence that is scripted to turn the player character back into a child, removes their inventory, and moves them into the appropriate cells and begins the quest Growing Up Fast, so they can experience their roots and experience what "happened" as they grew up before they left the Vault, as if the Lone Courier is remembering what caused them to leave Vault 101 in the first place.

Then, after completing Escape!, and leaving Vault 101, write a script that mimics exiting Tranquility Lane - i.e. returning the player character to an adult, restoring their inventory, moving them back to the cell outside Vault 101, etc., so they can proceed with Trouble On The Homefront. This way those quests can still be played and will be woven into the player character's journey, instead of being skipped and/or bugged out.

Just remember to adjust the Vault environment accordingly. Certain doors in the early FO3 quests are Very Hard locked, to prevent the child version of the player character from wandering into parts of the Vault they're not supposed to see yet. So, if the Lone Courier returns from New Vegas with lockpicking skills high enough to breach those doors as a child, it may cause issues, so those doors would have to be made "inaccessible", or require a key so they couldn't be opened by a child version of the player character with high lockpicking/hacking skills.

Also, before I forget, one other small oversight that might be included in future versions of TTW - apparently, if you start a game in New Vegas and then play through the Fallout 3 storyline second, remember that the scripts for Fallout 3 don't take into account all of the items available in New Vegas, and so sequences that affect your inventory may accidentally omit some items. In my game, it was my PIMP-Boy 3000 after leaving Tranquility Lane. I'm guessing since the PIMP-Boy 3000 technically didn't exist when Fallout 3 was released, the script that restores your character's inventory doesn't include the PIMP-Boy 3000 on the list, so my character was left inside Vault 112 without a Pip-Boy of any kind after exiting the Tranquility Lounger! I had to add it back using console commands. Might want to check into that for future updates! :D

Anyways, any feedback on what to do about the Dogmeat glitch would be very much appreciated, as well as thoughts on properly scripting Trouble On The Homefront, and weaving Growing Up Fast, Future Imperfect, and Escape! into a TTW New Vegas starting game would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for any feedback, will be checking back soon.

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RoyBatty
Gary
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Re: Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RoyBatty » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:27 pm

I'm probably just going to disable Trouble on the Home Front and the triggers permanently when starting in Vegas, it's one of the reasons we recommend not to start there.

There are a *lot* of triggers, quest conditions and scripts that need to be altered to make this run seamlessly as well as a ton of testing, which I don't care to do. I've got enough bugs with the vanilla game to address without these ones caused by breaking the natural continuity. I'm not even sure how the interior can be broken like that since it's an entirely *different* cell with a *different* door. I'll look at first though and see if there is an easy fix for that.
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RighteousFist
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Re: Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RighteousFist » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:40 pm

Thanks for replying, and I think I understand what is happening (with my limited modding experience), as far as the interior being broken.

A long time ago, while messing around with the game, I wanted to see where the Overseer went after he leaves your 10th birthday party in Growing Up Fast, so I used the console commands to unlock the door he goes through so I could follow him.

As I said in the initial post here, Vault 101 as a child is still there, it's just a different cell, as you explained here, with a different door. The quest Growing Up Fast is only supposed to take place in Vault 101's cafeteria, where the birthday party is held, and then down in the reactor level where you get your BB gun and kill the radroach. The rest of the "vault" is sealed off by those locked doors I mentioned before - but if you pick those doors, the vault is still there, it's just empty and barren, and nothing can be interacted with.

Only when you wake up into the quest Future Imperfect (when you take the GOAT at 16 years of age), do you actually enter the "normal" version of Vault 101.

So, because your New Vegas character is approaching Vault 101 for the "first" time when you arrive to do Trouble On The Home Front, the Vault is being loaded with the cells from the child's version of Vault 101 - the empty version that's supposed to be used during Growing Up Fast, because the game is registering that your character never left the Vault, and so the grown up version doesn't load until you leave and come back.

Now, I don't know much about how the game loads world spaces that change according to quest progression. For example, changing the interior and NPCs of Jefferson Memorial after Broken Steel has started - or changing the Citadel if you choose to destroy it at the end of Broken Steel - but from doing some modding myself, I've seen how everything is actually there when loading cells in the GECK's render view, it's just not accessible in the game until you've completed the appropriate quests.

Would it be so hard to just use "setstage" scripts to make sure the game is loading the correct Vault 101 cell when the player character starts in New Vegas, so that the continuity doesn't cause bugs when trying to do Trouble On The Homefront? I might be up to the challenge in scripting a patch that fixes this. I've seen other players post that they simply couldn't do Trouble On The Homefront because the door wouldn't open, whereas like I said, my door opened, but I realized the triggers were firing in reverse, and knew how to manipulate events in game to get the quest to start.

Just a thought. Could be fun to explore, because I've also wanted to look into ways to implement a quest replay system, where players could re-live the events of certain quests by using scripts to reset triggers and conditions. This could present an opportunity to play around with the idea. :)

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RoyBatty
Gary
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Re: Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RoyBatty » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:48 am

I had a look and it wasn't all that hard, I set some variables on the trigger activators.

However, when Trouble on the Home front starts, the original door to the vault is disabled and the one to the changed vault is enabled. So I don't know how you could end up in the original vault at all, at least during the quest.

The trigger for the first leaving the vault was easy enough to fix, and also the one that opens/closes the vault door was easy to fix. But you should have only been able to access that cell before trouble on the home front was activated.
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RighteousFist
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Re: Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RighteousFist » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:12 pm

You are absolutely correct, and I cannot explain that. The original door to the Vault should be disabled, because the original door would be the door that's present during the Lone Courier's child years, which they technically shouldn't be able to get to in the first place.

All I know is that when I approached the door, it was closed at first, and when I got closer, the Vault door opened by itself. I went into the Vault and the Vault was empty and unpopulated. Again, to my utter surprise, the ONLY occupant I discovered there was Rex, waiting in the hallway like he had teleported there himself (I dismissed Rex outside of the Hidden Valley Bunker way back in the Mojave, so, no idea how or why he'd show up in Vault 101).

I didn't understand what was happening, so I thought to close the Vault door, and then immediately open it again using the inside controls. When I closed the door, that's when the inside controls became disabled, and I was locked inside an empty Vault 101.

I reloaded a save and repeated the exact same steps, except this time, I ran back outside before the door finished closing. Then, after using the outside controls to open the door again, I went inside the Vault and there was officer Mack, and everything proceeded normally. So, I can't explain anything other than that, but those are the timeline of events.

Glad you were able to adjust the triggers, though. I actually would hate to miss out on Trouble On The Homefront for future iterations of TTW, because then how else would New Vegas starters obtain Butch as a companion? It's odd that this has never come up before. Also, seriously, I know it's a lot of work, but give some thought to working in the quests Growing Up Fast, Future Imperfect, and Escape! to trigger as New Vegas starters approach the Vault! It would go a long ways towards player immersion if Lone Couriers who are returning to the Capital Wasteland after living out West, suddenly "remembered" what happened, and why they had to leave! ;)

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RoyBatty
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Re: Even More Trouble On The Homefront

Post by RoyBatty » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:10 am

Well as I said, I already fixed this issue (I hope). I don't really want to test it because I don't really like New Vegas tbh.

I won't be doing anything with the vault start, if you want to experience it, start in DC.
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