Adding DR to armors: good idea or bad idea?

[TrickyVein]

Well color me interested. I've been playing for only a mere two hours and I can't tell any difference, wearing the talon combat armor with a DR of 22 - I would only be concerned if there seemed to be an dramatic decrease in the damage taken, like if DR 'stacked' on top of DT, but they seem to be working in concert. Great work.

I'm curious if you would be ambitious enough to provide appropriate armors with specific DR to energy, ballistic, EMP, fire - and if you would also think about giving supermutants resistance to certain damage types, or other creatures like Deathclaws a similar treatment. 

I think it would make for excellent gameplay if APA were all but immune to plasma/lasers but vulnerable to EMP and other kinds of damage, for instance. The player would be encouraged to invest caps and skills in different kinds of weapons instead of relying solely on one type.

@ cpurock - this makes so much more sense. AC seems like it would be totally doable. For armors that are rated very highly and also happen to be very expensive and rare it may be extremely undesirable for them to take all of the beating, all of the time - I like it.

[Her Imperious Condescention]

Hmm, have you tried testing the mod against high DAM weapons, like the Hunting Rifle? you may notice that the DR shaves off some damage, causing it to deal much less damage than if there were only DT. I'll be making a mod that will accompany this one that will make all ammo that reduces DT also reduce DR so that AP ammo would be more useful.

As for adding resistances to armors, well... I can work something out, along with some miscellaneous bonuses here and there. Leather armor does look like it can provide protection against fire and Metal Armor would be a great reflector for lasers, after all.

Also, as Power Armors are all steel and ceramic, I should reduce their DR a little bit. By a bit, I mean a lot. And put a DR cap so that people don't get TOO protected.

[TrickyVein]

I'll keep an eye on how enemies seem to be making out with it. It may be difficult for me to compare the experience of wearing armor with DR and without because I play such with such low endurance if I get shot with something that high-powered I'm pretty much already dead. 

It's now very obvious that there is a great dearth of human opponents in Fallout 3. You've got talon mercs and raiders. And that's about it. I think I really miss playing NV, so I'll take your DR mod to the Mojave where there are a greater variety of enemies. The effects will be more noticeable there.

[Sandloon]

Been playing for about an hour with it on (decided to go on a rampage against people with PA). I must say that my 60DAM hunting rifle is no match for their PA, even headshots do little damage and I rarely get a broken shield. I like it, makes the outcasts, enclave, and BoS actually scary to take on, although I am wearing my own PA so it isnt all that scary. Good work!

[Sandloon]

Hmmm, something I didnt notice before...This seems to have a conflict with your "Yet another power armor mod". Power armor doesnt retain the DR rating when activated. going to make a merged patch and see if that works

EDIT: Merged patch didnt seem to work. DR still not showing on PA when Another PA mod is active, gave Jericho a set of T-51b and a Talon Combat armor and he chose the Talon armor over the T-51b. Could you make a mod that brings the two together?

Ok, made a mod which modifies Another PA mod, which seems to override this one. Contact me and ill send it to you. (dont want to post your property)

[Sandloon]

Ok, so to run it do I need to have all 3 installed? or just this latest file?

[Her Imperious Condescention]

Sandloon: Your merged patch didn't work because a merged patch only merges leveled items, formID lists and the like. And by the way, yes, I did bring these two together, along with making AP/energy ammo also ignore DR and give some armors (combat armor, metal armor, leather armor) appropriate resistances, like, fire resistance to leather armor and energy resistance to metal armor. Plus, I regulated the amount of DR Power Armor has so that it's not too powerful (AKA, grab your AP ammo, or else). I've uploaded my second prototype to let you guys test it.

PS: 5.56mm ammo now ignores 5 DT by default, with AP ammo ignoring 20 DT; now your assault rifles are much more useful as you progress the game. Also, alien ammo is much more dangerous now; have you wanted to ignore DT and DR like you had OC/MC ammo, but with no extra tear and wear? Now you can.

[Her Imperious Condescention]

Just the latest file.

Also, redownload it; I've fixed the DR modifiers for AP ammo.

[hellblazer]

I don't know if DR is a good idea or not because I haven't played enough but CCO has a DR component.

Damage Resistance



When Obsidian made the move from Fallout 3 to New Vegas, they zeroed out all Damage Resistance values on armor, replacing it with the Damage Threshold mechanic. The original Fallout titles, however, used both mechanics at once: Damage Threshold to calculate your evade chance and absorb low levels of damage, and Damage Resistance to reduce the damage that still got through. In many ways, the two new games exist on two different extremes: Fallout 3 removed Damage Threshold and only used Damage Resistance, and New Vegas removed Damage Resistance and only used Damage Threshold. This module returns the system to its old method, and lets you to use both Damage Resistance and Damage Threshold at once.



How is Damage Resistance calculated? Damage Resistance is derived solely from your Damage Threshold, and scales depending on the class of armor you're wearing, equal to:



Light armor:

Natural DR = (DT – 5), but never exceeding 25%



Medium armor:

Natural DR = (DT – 10), but never exceeding 25%



Heavy armor:

Natural DR = (DT – 15), but never exceeding 25%



Understand? So if you have Desert Ranger Combat Armor on, which has a DT of 22, your natural DR will be equal to 12 (22 – 10, the medium armor derivative). If you have on a full set of Remnants Power Armor and your DR is 50, your DR will be equal to 25. Why? Even though 50 – 15 is 35, your natural DR cannot exceed 25%. Ever. Period. No matter how high your DT goes. Now, you can still take Med-X and such to raise your DR, but as far as your natural, derived DR goes, 25% is the limit.



So what if your DT is below 15? Does that mean you have negative DR? Of course not (though that would make for an interesting add-on)! As far as natural, derived DR goes, it can only help you. If your DT is below 15, you won't be penalized; it'll just be 0 until you get your hands on some better armor.



And why cap it at 25%? Simple: An excess of DR is overpowered. Once you start getting into high numbers, ridiculous things like tanking Deathclaws naked or taking seven Mini Nukes to the chest start happening. DR isn't like DT: It's a universal deduction from all damage taken. A 25% reduction to all damage is pretty damn powerful, and it was all I could safely give the player. You'll survive large bursts of damage more easily, like explosions, but rapid and small bursts of damage, like gunshots, are pretty unphased.



Finally, these DR benefits apply to all NPCs and creatures, not just you. However, NPCs use a modified formula. NPC and creature DR use the same calculation (-5 for light, -10 for medium, -15 for heavy), but their DR is capped at 15, not 25.



Why give NPCs a lower cap? Simple: Unlike you, many NPCs already have some natural DR. From guards at the New Vegas Medical Clinic to Deathclaws, certain NPCs were given an actor effect that raises their DR by the developers to make them tougher. To compensate for their natural bonus, they have a lower cap than you.

http://www.taleoftwowastelands.com/content/ttw-20-cirosan’s-classic-overhaul-ttw-alpha

[Sandloon]

Well, unlike in FO1 & FO2, Fo3 and FNV calculate their DT and DR differently.

In 1&2 (henceforth referred to as Classic) you actually had 3 calculations, AC, DT, DR. Calculated in that order.

In 3 & NV (Henceforth referred to as new/er) You have one or two calculations, DR or DT. Calculated in that order.

As you might imagine the newer way of doing things is far inferior to the classic way of doing things. in the Classic games, You had a chance to miss damage altogether, if that failed, you would then immediately negate a portion of damage (Let's say 10 DT from a 20 damage shot). Now you only have to worry about 10 damage, which will be lessened by your DR, which lets say is 50%, so you take 5 damage. (These are improbable numbers, but easy for illustration).

In the newer games, you can add DR to TTW, but as stated before this is calculated before DT. So, for instance, that 20 damage shot, where you have 50% DR, will actually be a 10 damage shot, but wait! You also have 10DT, so therefore all damage is theoretically negated (except the game has an automatic bleedthrough of 20%, thus giving you 2 damage). 

This makes DR a LOT more effective than in the classic games, and really...I wish they would be calculated differently...Yes, DT WILL stop SOME damage even in a complete break, but it is nowhere near as much as a good DR rating would (15% I think?). Sadly I believe I read somewhere that this is hardcoded into the game and cannot be changed, so adding small amounts of DR actually makes everything far harder than adding large amounts of DT...

 

(which is why we need TJMidnight and LTAlbrecht to finish their PA mod, with Gribble of course :P)