Power Armor Tiers

Post by **TsurudaHimeko** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:58 am

Wow, how interesting! you made a changes to unique PA's!

Post by **RoyBatty** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:01 am

IMO PA should cost between 6000 and 22000 caps in 100% condition. It should also not be sellable or purchasable from normal merchants, and only repairable by Enclave/Remnants or BoS/Outcasts. Suits looted from corpses should have very low durability on the order of 5-15%.

I think they also should not boost Stats or Specials at all, but rather have more useful effects. The increased carry weight is one. Lower strength requirements for weapons could be another, increased critical chance for 2 hand handle weapons due to stabilization and/or decreased spread, faster movement, increased jump height, increasing melee damage/attack speed with two handed weapons, and other such effects rather than the typical +5 to guns type of stuff that is useless at higher levels. Power armor is also NOISY and penalties can reduce stats for sneaking. It's also BULKY and could reduce agility on the heavy armor variants, or even reduce lockpicking and hacking skills due to the player having "sausage fingers".

Post by **EnderDragonFire** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:37 am

Some of your changes are inconsistent with the original games. In Fo3 Winterized T-51b was worse than normal, and in FNV Scorched T-45d was better. I don't know if this was intentional, just letting you know.

Post by **darthbdaman** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:48 am

Scorched sierra is the same as the original game? In regards to changing the games, I didn't change any New Vegas stuff, only Fallout 3 stuff. I don't hold the design decisions made on Fallout 3 in high regard, and a lot of them conflict established lore in the real games. I changed the Fallout 3 items to match the (much better) balance decisions made in New Vegas. Outside of that, some things were changed to make sure the Fallout 3 items fit into the lore.

Post by **Darkersun** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:44 pm

I think if you use JSawyer mod it changes should be the base for the Power Armors. If you want to stay true to the Mod.

So what he did was adding DR and if training was done half of the carry weight as a bonus. DT was unchanged.

Here are the values that JSwayer Mod used:

Name: DR

NCR salvaged power armor 20

T-45d power armor 25

T-51b power armor 30

Remnants power armor 35

Gannon Family Tesla Armor 25

So I come up with these values for TTW

FO3 Armors:

Tribal power armor 20

Outcast power armor 25

Lyons' Pride power armor 27 (In the game they say it was slighly improved)

Tesla armor 25

Enclave power armor 30

Winterized T-51b power armor 30

T-51b power armor 30

Enclave Hellfire armor 35

Keep the DT as it was.

And here are my preferences, but they are outside the scope of a TTW patch for PN + JSawyer (just my personal opinion):

- I like the idea of making the t-51 in FO3 unique. Maybe change it to an Army Prototype Armor or the Hardened T-51b (there are a lot of nice models out there). Its hard to get and should be the most advanced east coast armor.

- Enclave Power Armor aka east coast power armor should be on a level with old T-51b

- Tesla Power Armor (east coast) should not be medium, its just to bulky I think. Less Protection/HP than normal Enclave (east coast) armor

Here are the Values I would like, also give them better Names (helps sorting):

New Name DT / DR

PA T-45d NCR Salvaged 20 / 20

PA T-45d Tribal 21 / 22 (Missing some parts of the armor)

PA T-45d Ashur 22 / 24 (Missing some parts of the armor)

PA T-45d Army 22 / 25

PA T-45d BOS 22 / 25

PA T-45d Outcast 22 / 25

PA T-45d Lindens 22 / 25

PA MP-47 Prototype Medical 22 / 25

PA T-45d BOS Lyons 23 / 27 (Improved by BOS engeeniers)

PA T-48s Scorched Sierra 24 / 25 (Improved by NCR engeeniers)

PA T-51b Army 25 / 30

PA T-51b BOS 25 / 30

PA T-51b Outcast 25 / 30

PA T-51h Winterized 26 / 30 (Prestine condition)

PA T-51h Hardened 26 / 32 (Improved armor coating)

APA T-52a MKII 25 / 30

APA T-52a MKII Tesla 22 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA MKI 28 / 25

APA MKI Remenants 28 / 35

APA Tesla MKI 25 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA Tesla MKI Gannon family 25 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA MKII 29 / 38

APA Hellfire 30 / 40 (+Fire DR)

Note from the wiki:

The Fallout 3 version of Enclave power armor is referred to as "T-52a" armor in concept art, but this designation does not appear or receive mention in the game itself.

Note on Hellfire:

As state of the art power armor, it is conclusively the best and most advanced model of power armor revealed to date. It provides its wearers with more protection than any other form of armor produced post-Great War, due to its unique Duraframe components and high resistance to heat.

Here are some Mods/Resources that could help:

6 T-51b Retextures

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/4540/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D4540%26preview%3D&pUp=1

New Textures Power Armor

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/8547/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D8547%26preview%3D&pUp=1

Enclave Symbols and Insignias -> Maybe use these to make T-51 Enclave Armors

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/10821/?

Post by **darthbdaman** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:29 pm

[quote=Darkersun]

I think if you use JSawyer mod it changes should be the base for the Power Armors. If you want to stay true to the Mod.

[/quote]

Thats what I did :)

[quote=Darkersun]

So what he did was adding DR and if training was done half of the carry weight as a bonus. DT was unchanged.

Here are the values that JSwayer Mod used:

Name: DR

NCR salvaged power armor 20

T-45d power armor 25

T-51b power armor 30

Remnants power armor 35

Gannon Family Tesla Armor 25

So I come up with these values for TTW

FO3 Armors:

Tribal power armor 20

Outcast power armor 25

Lyons' Pride power armor 27 (In the game they say it was slighly improved)

Tesla armor 25

Enclave power armor 30

Winterized T-51b power armor 30

T-51b power armor 30

Enclave Hellfire armor 35

Keep the DT as it was.

[/quote]

I didn't use the default TTW or FO3 values. I used most of the values that were already in the FNV files and interpolated the ones that weren't.

[quote=Darkersun]

And here are my preferences, but they are outside the scope of a TTW patch for PN + JSawyer (just my personal opinion):

- I like the idea of making the t-51 in FO3 unique. Maybe change it to an Army Prototype Armor or the Hardened T-51b (there are a lot of nice models out there). Its hard to get and should be the most advanced east coast armor.

- Enclave Power Armor aka east coast power armor should be on a level with old T-51b

- Tesla Power Armor (east coast) should not be medium, its just to bulky I think. Less Protection/HP than normal Enclave (east coast) armor

Here are the Values I would like, also give them better Names (helps sorting):

New Name DT / DR

PA T-45d NCR Salvaged 20 / 20

PA T-45d Tribal 21 / 22 (Missing some parts of the armor)

PA T-45d Ashur 22 / 24 (Missing some parts of the armor)

PA T-45d Army 22 / 25

PA T-45d BOS 22 / 25

PA T-45d Outcast 22 / 25

PA T-45d Lindens 22 / 25

PA MP-47 Prototype Medical 22 / 25

PA T-45d BOS Lyons 23 / 27 (Improved by BOS engeeniers)

PA T-48s Scorched Sierra 24 / 25 (Improved by NCR engeeniers)

PA T-51b Army 25 / 30

PA T-51b BOS 25 / 30

PA T-51b Outcast 25 / 30

PA T-51h Winterized 26 / 30 (Prestine condition)

PA T-51h Hardened 26 / 32 (Improved armor coating)

APA T-52a MKII 25 / 30

APA T-52a MKII Tesla 22 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA MKI 28 / 25

APA MKI Remenants 28 / 35

APA Tesla MKI 25 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA Tesla MKI Gannon family 25 / 25 (+EMP/Energie DR)

APA MKII 29 / 38

APA Hellfire 30 / 40 (+Fire DR)

Note from the wiki:

The Fallout 3 version of Enclave power armor is referred to as "T-52a" armor in concept art, but this designation does not appear or receive mention in the game itself.

Note on Hellfire:

As state of the art power armor, it is conclusively the best and most advanced model of power armor revealed to date. It provides its wearers with more protection than any other form of armor produced post-Great War, due to its unique Duraframe components and high resistance to heat.

Here are some Mods/Resources that could help:

6 T-51b Retextures

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/4540/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D4540%26preview%3D&pUp=1

New Textures Power Armor

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/8547/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D8547%26preview%3D&pUp=1

Enclave Symbols and Insignias -> Maybe use these to make T-51 Enclave Armors

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/10821/?

[/quote]

I agree with you on some stuff, but it is outside the scope of the mod. I did create a unique T-51b for the East Coast that is slightly better in Project Nevada.

As for the East Coast enclave armors being worse, I really don't like this idea. I want the DC enclave to be the most advanced faction in the wastes bar none. They have to put the brotherhood to shame. Hence those suits have to be better than the brotherhoods.

Hellfire is the best regular suit, but I wouldn't put it past vault tec to have developed something better before the war. This also means that a faction agnostic suit is the best, which i like. I didn't want a brotherhood or enclave armor to be the best, as that would encourage players to were out of place armor.

Post by **EnderDragonFire** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:14 am

I disagree with "I want the DC enclave to be the most advanced faction in the wastes bar none." Why would they be? They would be better than the T-45d which is seriously outdated, even by prewar standards. But:

*BoS lost all their T-51b suits when traveling from California, and they were on an organized, planned mission. The Enclave was running for their lives, so the chances that they somehow managed to do better (and lose less PA) than the BoS are very slim.

*There are a total of 2 suits of T-51b in Washington. So it is unlikely that the Enclave could have based the East coast armor upon it. Without Earlier APA or T-51b, the East coast armor is probably based upon T-45d.

*The West coast Enclave had 200 years to develop their armor, as opposed to the 37 that the East coast had. They also had hundreds of scientists at Navarro, who were trained before the war.

Honestly, the only way that the East coast would be better that West coast is if they brought West coast armor with them. While this makes for a good alternative storyline, there is no actual lore supporting it. As far as we know, the enclave fled across the country in a diaspora of defeated soldiers, who came together when they discovered Eden at Raven Rock, and rebuilt everything.

Post by **darthbdaman** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:29 am

They would have brought some of their armor, and probably their research with them/ There's no way anyone can seriously say the enclave is so incompetent they managed to lose everything. I can't believe that. Even if the oil rig was being destroyed, stuff would have been salvaged, and, more importantly, they would have made backups. On the west coast they were the most advanced faction, and if they actually managed to lose everything with the oil rig, they would have to be incredibly stupid.

Post by **Runnerblank** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:16 am

Knowing how to maintain and build Advance Power Armor and being able to build new suits without having to seriously gear down after having lost your total Industrial base and access to resources (let alone the lose of a significant portion of your scientists and technicians) are two totally different things.

I think it obvious that they did bring some Advance Power Armor from the West Coast if for no other reason than they made it to the East Coast. And the Hellfire Armor proves that they did eventually get back to where they started from. But even if they were able to salvage any power armor or power armor manufacturing capacity on the East Coast, it would have been the T49ds. So it would have taken them a long time to recover what was lost on the West Coast if for no other reason than needing a couple of generations to rebuild their population to support the tech and industrial base needed to build West Coast Advance Power Armor.

BTW, thanks for creating these Patches.

Post by **darthbdaman** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:17 pm

My problem with the is that they are later able to build hellfire armor, which is stated to be the best armor ever developed. If they did lose everything with the oil rig, how did they manage to develop hellfire armor if they couldn't even match the mk1 results with the mk 2 armor?

Power Armor Tiers

So, will Ashur's armor+Tribal

IMO PA should cost between

Some of your changes are

Scorched sierra is the same

I think if you use JSawyer

Darkersun wrote:

I disagree with "I want the

They would have brought some

Knowing how to maintain and

My problem with the is that