Im working on a Re-Arm Dc Overhaul need suggestions or just some ideas

Post by **gamefever** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:33 pm

Alright when I say working on I mean I'm pretty far along.

Right now what I have done is to make my own quick reference mini lists of every non-unique weapon in Both games plus DLC's. The lists contain only the weapons that are meant to be in TTW that is no non-working weapons are in these lists. I used >withammo"gun"loot< for my quick list's meaning that I can easily insert a gun that has a random condition with ammo and a few random ammo casings for game flavor. I have a seperate list for each catagory of weapon. Weapons that I added to the list that did not have a withammo'gun'loot list have had one made.

Essentailly I developed a quick list system that will allow me to quickly create a weapon sublist that can contain any non-unique (barring about 4 or 5 exceptions) weapon I pick into any the weapons possible for a given group. There are a lot of weapons much more than one might think and when you can see the whole list its pretty clear that with just TTW your in for a lot of guns for a group if you want them.

Example, I have a Pistol, Semi-Auto Rifle, and Automatic Rifle list and so on. Changing a list for say a Raider is simply editting out the weapons from a copied list and attaching it to the Raiders list. Can also make certain weapons specific to a level or even just really rare. The process is actually pretty easy with this set-up.

Some notes.

-The weapons leveled list does not appear to merge with other lists. The DC factions for weapons list dont overlap Fallout New Vegas, that is I put a gun on a Raider in DC it doesnt appear on a FNV Raider....Also the reverse is true FNV raider lists dont effect DC raiders. Of course Talon Company, Regulators, Enclave, and Outcasts dont effect FNV. Not sure yet about Super Mutants or Brotherhood.

Currently have been working on RaidersDC.

The Raider List for Weapons are

RaiderWeaponMeleeDC <-old default (it appears that TTW injects 4 more list types for this)

RaiderWeaponSpecialDC <-old default (it appears that TTW injects more list types for this)

RaiderWeaponGrenade20DC: 20% chance a Raider has Frag Grenade (defualt basically)

Raider1WeaponGunDC

Raider2WeaponGunDC

Raider3WeaponGunDC

Additional List Type added by TTW

Raider1WeaponRiffle (there are 3 list types for this, yes they are in the game)

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So before we get too much further, yes my new lists work and add weapons to Groups in Game. The question now becomes about what kind of re-balance is fun. There's also a nudging thought in my head that I should observe the new list types and play along with what was intended in this layout...

Originally These List Types were our Primary Raider Encounter

Raider1WeaponGunDC <-Pistol Raider, this guy used to be the one with the 10mm, 32, and chinese pistol

Raider2WeaponGunDC <-Rifle Man, (X2 Hunting Rifle, Sawn-Off, or Assault Riffle)

Raider3WeaponGunDC <-Assault Raider (X2 AR, submachinegun, or Combat Shotgun)

TTW changes those Raiders to have pistols, with the classification getting better at Raider 3...Unfortunately IMO these 3 Raider Types are Underwhelming, mostly due to selection of weapon type.

TTW does add new Template Types as I mentioned above

RiffleMan Template Type's have

R1 chance of Varment Rifle

R2 chance of Service Rifle or Varment Rifle (50 50)

R3 chance of Hunting Rifle or Service Rifle (50 50)

Observing this suggests that the New RifleRaider Template takes the spot of the old Raider2WeaponDC spot.

TTW also has 3 Templates for Specail Weapons rather than one...

Here is where a change really starts to shine. Essentailly instead of just a Flamer or Missle Launcher Specailists can appear in one of 3 classifications at random.

The new gun types cover not only the old Flamer or Missle...They also introduce Raiders with Grenade Launchers and Incenerators.

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Having looked through the list a player would not see what they are used to seeing in the default game. That is that Raiders primarily had an abundance of American Assault Rifle's and a chance of having 10mm submachine gun or Combat Shotgun.

Currently in TTW, my experience has been that I quickly outpace the armaments level of the Raiders by level 6 that is that I aquire a Combat Shotgun and now they are hopeless cannon fodder. Of course the pervalance of grenade and mine cache's doesnt help them levels 1-6, but at 6 the player's primary weapon outstrips what Raiders can bring to bear.

It would appear that by level 10 the Raiders start to bring some nifty items to the table...But by this time its sorta a bit late. Bear in mind that I'm using MMM and Project Nevada so things are actually a fair bit more challanging over the default TTW experience yet this is still my impression.

Now I do have right now a list that overhauls Raiders to the other extreme, which is to say that Raiders will show up with a wide range of weaponry mostly Riffle's and AR's... The amount of fire power they can bring to bear on the Lone Wanderer with my current esp is overwhelming and the number of likely pistol wielding Raiders is very low...But it does remind me of some nostagic moments playing modded Fo3.

That list was made before having identified that TTW had in fact implanted a few more Template Types into the mix, and it allows for a fair bit more destribution and leans more towards Raiders having a pistol over a riffle which I think is a pretty good idea.

Now my list didnt just alter guns, I also altered the melee Raiders.

My melee Raiders can show up with Throwing Weapons which they use. Throwing Hatchet, Knifes, and Spears all have a chance to appear on this Template Type.

The Raider Grenade Chance has changed up a bit, Frag Grenades are quite rare on Raiders. Now they might show up with Tin Can Nade, MC nade, and fire bombs...They may also have more than just 1 in their bag to throw as well...No more "oh he threw his only nade, I'm safe to keep hiding here moments."

Post by **gamefever** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:29 pm

Dang, I just lost a whole bunch of stuff I wrote out... D:

Direction with Re-Armament.

A more Deleveled playing experience. Player has to plan out how he takes down Gun weilding Factions, the faction has been in the wasteland longer than the player and thus is better prepared than before.

Raider's

The most common enemy type and is always something your going to face in DC. The problem mostly is that from level 1 you dont have to respect that these guys are in fact harderned Wastlanders.

Equipment: Raiders are present everywhere and even have access to some armories and unique locations that are ideal for scavenging weaponry. However raiders shouldnt have predictable weaponry load-outs as a result. In fact you should never be sure of what a raider will have available....This means that Raiders are in fact possibly equipped with the widest range of Weaponry in the game and not be a source of farming a particular ammo type.

This group should also have unussual weaponory that is home made. The explosive weapon frag grenade should be replaced with an assortment of other available options.

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Talon Company, Regulators, and Reileys Rangers

Background: Organized mercs, Law, and somewhat militeristic. These groups have and make use of Combat Armor (with exception of Regulators). These groups are or should be properly equipped to deal with real threats and that includes you the player. There weapons should be more consistant and powerful enough to deal with real threats.

Equipment: Combat Armor or Reinforced Leather Armor these items are valuable and their weaponry loadouts should reflect this. Grenade types should be frag and stun grenade.

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Brotherhood Outcasts

Background: Former Brotherhood, they broke off from Lions group. These Outcasts stick to Brotherhood traditions and though there are fewer of them their weaponry should reflect that they have access to Energy Weapons and prefer those types.

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Brotherhood of Steel

The BoS in DC are stuck in a fight against Super Mutants and have been recruiting and equipping the locals. Their Loadouts should reflect that, meaning less energy weaponry.

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Enclave

Simply put this organization has access to fortified bunkers that were purposefully stocked with the best military gear available. These cache's have always been available to Enclave. They should always be equipped to easily deal with threats with weaponry that is awesome and deadly.

Post by **gamefever** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:46 pm

An example of Common Raider Pistol items

10mm

32 Caliber (22 cal recartridged for TTW)

Chinese Pistol (keeps with lore)

44 Magnum

45 Pistol

Police Pistol, "deadmoney pistol"

Uncommon Pistols for Raiders

357 Revolver

9mm (keeps with lore so its uncommon)

Silenced 22

556 Pistol (wiki says it was commonly a survivors pistol but has become more rare, in this case uncommon)

127 Pistol

Rare Pistol List (unlikely you'd see them this list is injected into a list as a sublist hence they really are rare)

Flare Gun (thinking of making it uncommon it'd be likely easy enough to find these)

Recharger Pistol

Plasma Pistol

Plasma Defender

Laser Pistol (This should be uncommon the Raiders in Superduper Mart had one just laying on the counter)

At present my thoughts are too organize these into list types like the above and it certainly works too from testing the Raiders have a widely unpredictable aresonal of weapons. Note that normally a list just has the items in question laid out one by one...My lists are sublist style so that its a little differrent in how the weapon is picked.

Post by **Puppettron** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:33 pm

srsly, have you given thought to creating gangs in the CW? that might be way more useful and fun.

Post by **freakydoo** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:18 pm

as some one who is constantly messing with the leveled list. i think this idea is great! i tend to play more with clothing cause i'm more into seeing different clothing on npc's than worrying about balance. anything that adds verity and logic to the game is a welcome addition.

i like puppettron's idea of gangs... random question... is it possible to have different factions respawn in the same area? example... you clear out the raiders from the school near megaton and find 3/4 days (i have the respawn time set for a month through PN) that it has been over run with a different gangs of raiders with different weaponary

Post by **gamefever** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:02 pm

@freakydoo

Actually I have made and released a few leveled list replacers for both Fallout 3 and Fallout NV under the same gamertag over at Nexus myself.

On your topic of Raider Gangs/Tribes,

I love the idea actually and have thought about how cool that would be if the Raiders were organized into groups rather than all falling into one single large catagory. It is odd that the Raiders themselves occupy so many great locations and yet all fall into one faction. Its something that bugged me even before FNV was out.

I know its certainly doable but its actually a fair bit more work involved than a leveled list replacer.

Example, say we change out Springvale Elementary School,

Replace Spawn Marker's, points to Template (determines which spawn types)

New or Edit to New Templates, Template contains gear list and class. Points to an appearance list...these have about 10 types or so, no idea if those would have to be changed or made new, might be able to reference the already made Raider appearance.

Faction Data, might be able to borrow copy Raider Faction Data and make edits where appropriate.

Replacing Spawn Markers would have to happen in the Geck. Determining respawn is just a checkmark no biggie.

I suppose the leveled item list then would be unique to this group so a whole new set of Equipment Types with lists of items would be needed.

From there its a question of which item assets to use. How would people feel about using existing Tribal armor assets just to keep the looks interesting.

Springvale School might take a few days or more cause there might be unforseen edits to be made.

There's also which zones should be replaced, I think there's an armory or two that have Raiders present.

Thats without considering dialogue or quests......Which get more involved and might require some significant review of how to actually perform changes like those.

For armors could literrally borrow existing types like Khans, Honest Hearts Outfits...Not sure but I thought there were some Freeside Raider types with differrent armor its been a while since I played in FNV.

Might not be lore friendly but it certainly would keep it fresh.

Post by **Puppettron** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:27 pm

realistically, for testing purposes, they don't need different looks. just different gear. if it's all viable, you could look into someone to do textures and models for things like gang jackets and other markings

Post by **paragonskeep** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:10 am

All this so far sounds really cool. Look forward to more.

Post by **freakydoo** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:46 am

[quote=Puppettron]

realistically, for testing purposes, they don't need different looks. just different gear. if it's all viable, you could look into someone to do textures and models for things like gang jackets and other markings

[/quote]

...or... there are tons of modder resources available

Post by **Puppettron** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:33 am

yup. but if you're doing this mostly through LL's, you don't need all the stuff together to test and make sure it works and to gauge how much work you're looking at before fully committing. put together an LL for the school and another one for the supermarket and you've got all the testing and implementation size stuff you need to start with.