Big Guns

[TAWM]

[quote=RoyBatty]

 

Making some posts for other facts to go along with what Risewild posted for speech checks.

Weapons with 100 Skill Requirement (some moved to Big Guns)

Guns (Small and Big)

• 
  Minigun


• 
  Riot Shotgun (stays small guns)


• 
  Anti-Material Rifle


• 
  Light Machine Gun


• 
  Marksman Carbine (stays small guns)


• 
  All-American (stays small guns)


• 
  Brush Gun (stays small guns)


• 
  12.7mm Submachine Gun (stays small guns)


• 
  CZ57 Avenger


• 
  Automatic Rifle


• 
  Bozar


• 
  Medicine Stick (stays small guns)


• 
  12.7mm Submachine Gun (GRA) (stays small guns)


• 
  Anti Material Rifle (GRA)


• 
  Eugene

Energy Weapons

• 
  Gatling Laser


• 
  Plasma Caster


• 
  Tesla Cannon


• 
  Heavy Incinerator


• 
  Tesla-Beaton Prototype


• 
  Elijah's Jury Rigged Tesla Cannon


• 
  Sprtel-Wood 9700


• 
  The Smitty Special


• 
  Tesla Cannon Prototype


• 
  Vengeance


• 
  Precision Gatling Laser


• 
  Drone Cannon


• 
  Drone Cannon Ex-B

Explosives

• 
  Fatman


• 
  Grenade Machine Gun


• 
  Mercy


• 
  Red Glare


• 
  Esther


• 
  Fatman (GRA)


• 
  Experimental MIRV

---

Weapons with 75 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  K9000 Cyberdog Gun


• 
  FIDO (skill 85)


• 
  Shoulder Mounted Machine Gun

Energy Weapons

• 
  Arc Welder

Explosives

• 
  Missile Launcher


• 
  Annabelle


• 
  Miss Launcher

---

Weapons with 50 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  None

Energy Weapons

• 
  Flamer


• 
  Cleansing Flame


• 
  Burn Master


• 
  Rapid-Torch Flamer


• 
  Slo-Burn Flamer

Explosives

• 
  None

---

Weapons with 25 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  None

Energy Weapons

• 
  Incinerator

Explosives

• 
  None

---

Weapons with 0 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  Rock-It Launcher

Energy Weapons

• 
  None

Explosives

• 
  None

---

The spread is mostly OK, the only issues is 100 skill weapons for Energy and Explosives. I would address this by raising the skill for the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle/Metal Blaster to 100 since these were end game weapons in Fallout 3. Additionally the Alien Blaster, Captain's Sidearm, Firelance and Microwave Emitter could be raised to 100 to give some 100 skill weapons.

Explosives is a bit more difficult, but the role could be filled with C-4 and a couple of the Mad Bomber things like the MFC Cluster or something.

[/quote]

 

Honestly for the energy weapons the Metal Blaster is just a laser shotgun at the end of the day so upping it's sway really isn't going to do much of anything...that and while powerful it's not the most powerful energy weapon and I don't even know if I would consider it a truly end game weapon in terms of power.  The Metal Blaster is also something most players are going to grab at low levels considering the fact most experienced players play the Pitt at low levels because playing it at higher levels is a cake walk.  While very powerful at level 5 at level 30 it's not the most powerful energy weapon in TTW.    

 

Really the ultra powerful fallout 3 energy weapons are the alien weaponry.  The Alien Blaster and Destablizer make mincemeat out of everything.  The first time I played Old World Blues I brought the Destablizer with me and I killed the  X-42 Giant Roboscorpion instantly.  The alien weaponry should be energy weapon skill 100 and the rest of the energy weapons more or less left alone.  

[RoyBatty]

It *may* affect 2 weapons in Fallout New Vegas in terms of skill requirement, one which is a wild wasteland only weapon which is the Alien Blaster.

All the other weapons listed are Fallout 3 exclusive weapons and have nothing to do with the wiki or how you currently build, because weapon skill requirements were not in Fallout 3.

As for the Tri-Beam/Metal Blaster being end game weapons, they were in Fallout 3 pretty much. We've discussed un-nerfing the energy weapons too, but that's a different subject entirely. But yes I can see the complaints already so will reconsider and stick to the alien weapons and microwave emitter.

[EnderDragonFire]

I'm sure you can guess how I feel about changing vanilla FNV weapon stats around, given my prior statements on this thread, but I'm going to chime in anyway; it's not a good idea. The Tri-beam laser is not end game in FNV, and making it take 100 skill would feel really artificial and strange on the Mojave side. The Mad Bomber stuff is already heavily skill and perk gated, IMO, and making it take 100 skill would make most people never use it. 

[RoyBatty]

I'll say this one more time so people understand, TTW is not New Vegas with Fallout 3 as a DLC anymore. You can keep playing 2.9.4b if you want that or go back to playing RFCW if you can find it.

TTW is moving forward into a state where it is integrated on much deeper levels, if that means changing balance or editing something in both wastelands then so be it. My ultimate goal is to do just that, but in stages so that it's an easier transition for people. I have a vision and as a developer I want to see where it leads. If others don't like that vision then that's ok with me.

Seeing as how these changes are going to be optional, I'll balance it how I think is best while taking into consideration valid arguments otherwise that make sense. I'm going to ignore any "because it's wrong" or "I don't like it just because I fail to see the benefit" arguments.

Don't get me started on FNV balancing at all... there is plenty broken about it.

Make a poll and see who uses Mad Bomber, I bet less than 1% of players do.

[GrantSP]

[quote=RoyBatty]

 

...TTW is not New Vegas with Fallout 3 as a DLC anymore. You can keep playing 2.9.4b if you want that or go back to playing RFCW if you can find it.

TTW is moving forward into a state where it is integrated on much deeper levels...

[/quote]

I think this is the best comment I've seen on this matter, thank you for the clarification on TTW's future. I was still under the impression that it WAS still a FO3 mod added into FNV, but now I can see that it is much more. This move is a well needed one and I personally see the benefits of it going that way.

 

[RoyBatty]

Yeah I've tried to push the idea that it's neither Fallout 3 nor Fallout New Vegas, but it's Tale of Two Wastelands many times. It's just not possible to make one game or the other follow the rules of the other verbatim or it just falls apart. On the surface Fallout 3 was never balanced for players to be level 50. On the other side New Vegas was similarly not balanced for that however the DLC's were, and it was not balanced for the crazy OP weapons of Fallout 3 or it's perks (MIRV for ex). Similarly many of the creatures in New Vegas are weak in comparison to Fallout 3, except for a few like Deathclaws and Rad Scorpions.

I will open other threads discussing these things later as they arise, as was mentioned this is planned for stages. The next stage is likely Energy Weapons, aforementioned balancing for level 50 and GRA integration of some sort.

[TAWM]

It's both games combined so it might as well be treated as a hybrid of both with the best features from both games used.  Yeah I'm definitely onboard with that and that's why I support things like big guns being brought back as default since TTW should be treated as a hybrid of New Vegas and Fallout 3 and not Fallout 3 mod for New Vegas or Fallout 3 2.0  Bring back what is cool from Fallout 3 that's not in New Vegas and keep what is good about New Vegas in TTW and make changes where needed.  

 

I'm curious about level 50 balancing in the capital wasteland and mojave...Deathclaw behemoths?...Glowing One Reavers?...Sentry Bot Mk10?...special ops Talon Mercs?  At that level especially running a lot of mods you need something crazy to give you a challenge.      

[EnderDragonFire]

[quote=RoyBatty]

I'll say this one more time so people understand, TTW is not New Vegas with Fallout 3 as a DLC anymore. You can keep playing 2.9.4b if you want that or go back to playing RFCW if you can find it.

TTW is moving forward into a state where it is integrated on much deeper levels, if that means changing balance or editing something in both wastelands then so be it. My ultimate goal is to do just that, but in stages so that it's an easier transition for people. I have a vision and as a developer I want to see where it leads. If others don't like that vision then that's ok with me.

Seeing as how these changes are going to be optional, I'll balance it how I think is best while taking into consideration valid arguments otherwise that make sense. I'm going to ignore any "because it's wrong" or "I don't like it just because I fail to see the benefit" arguments.

Don't get me started on FNV balancing at all... there is plenty broken about it.

Make a poll and see who uses Mad Bomber, I bet less than 1% of players do.

[/quote]

I understand that. My problem is thatI am not sure what TTW *actually is* now; that has not been made very clear, there is no "mission statment" or "prime directive" for the project, as far as a I am aware. I am also not sure how much of this deeper integration is planned for the 3.0 release; you have mentioned stages, but I don't really know how much change you are comfortable putting into one single update. It is difficult to give feedback to the TTW team without knowing what your goals and guiding principles for the project actually are. I am shooting in the dark, so to speak. I am sure you *have* a vision as a developer, but you have not fully articulated that vision so that the general users of the mod can help you realize it. There used to be LOTS of official forums for cross-content discussions, and Jax made his "vision" for TTW very clear to everyone, even if they didn't agree with him. I tried to give him feedback at achieving his goals. I will gladly do the same for you, once I understand what your goal actually is in more concrete terms. "Deeper integration" is rather vague and doesn't give me much of a guideline when providing feedback. In what situation is Fallout 3 prioritized? In what situation is FNV prioritized? How important is game balance? Lore friendliness? Do you want to maintain the distinct tone and feel of each game, or blend them seamlessly so they seem like the same game? Etc.

It would really help if there was an official post outlining:

*The long term goals of TTW; what is it meant to be whe it's done?

*What are the "rules" of TTW; what is off limits, if anything, to the projeect?

*What are the goalposts for the TTW 3.0 release? How much more are you adding? 

*Which changes are going to be optional and which changes are going to be core? How is this decided?

EDIT:

Basically, what that wall of text is meant to say is that I don't know how to critique TTW as anything *other* than "New Vegas with Fallout 3 as a DLC."

I know what TTW *was* and what it *IS NOT* but not what it currently actually *is* So.. what is it? 

[tawatabak]

[quote=RoyBatty]

 

I'll say this one more time so people understand, TTW is not New Vegas with Fallout 3 as a DLC anymore. You can keep playing 2.9.4b if you want that or go back to playing RFCW if you can find it.

TTW is moving forward into a state where it is integrated on much deeper levels, if that means changing balance or editing something in both wastelands then so be it. My ultimate goal is to do just that, but in stages so that it's an easier transition for people. I have a vision and as a developer I want to see where it leads. If others don't like that vision then that's ok with me.

Seeing as how these changes are going to be optional, I'll balance it how I think is best while taking into consideration valid arguments otherwise that make sense. I'm going to ignore any "because it's wrong" or "I don't like it just because I fail to see the benefit" arguments.

Don't get me started on FNV balancing at all... there is plenty broken about it.

Make a poll and see who uses Mad Bomber, I bet less than 1% of players do.

[/quote]

best comment i read in here for a very long time

make this "your game" and "not everyone elses"

i am all for the best of both worlds.

i would like to see:

big guns back

reputation in fo3 (i know there is an optional for that for a long time now, but it doesnt seem to be perfect as of yet)

gun runners in the capital wasteland (or atleast the weapons integrated in leveled lists)

maybe some cut content back if its possible, like being able to speak with the 3 raider bosses in new vegas, with some kind of disguise

being able to disguise as enclave in capital wasteland

and ofcourse some balancing of both games to compliment each other

a patch for project california(former project brasil), a patch for the frontier

 

 

but at the and of the day its up to you(ttw-team)

and i am more than happy for everything you guys already gave us and i cant wait to see where you will go with this in the future

thank you all, who worked on this, i can't praise you enough

[RoyBatty]

Going to start a new topic since this one has pretty much run its course and the discussion has shifted.