Big Guns

[EnderDragonFire]

Glad to see the site back! 

[Postal-Dude]

I like the idea about the place for the supposed Survival Bobblehead.

I never even noticed this place in like 10 playthroughs with probably like 1000 hours yet. Just amazing still finding new locations. But honestly I am not even looking for such places anymore since my brain expects to know every location. Boy am I wrong.

The place is on YouTube btw. Watched the video. Its not that great of a place. Just a really small cave with a few dogs and 2 dead persons in it. However, I guess nearly nobody ever visited it. Plus its not really worth it anyway. With the Survival Bobblehead, this changes I would say.

Nice being able to login again. FINALLY!

[ashjay101]

i say it needs to be at least optional

[monyarm]

I'm pretty sure this would break http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/45604/? , or at the very least make it require a patch to function properly.

Which is why i think it should be optional, have it if you want it, don't if you don't.

[RoyBatty]

A lot of things need a patch to function properly. So that's not really a valid argument in this case.

[sgtnapalm]

Lurker here.

Something I've not seen discussed is its roleplay viability. Apologies if I missed it.

How will you guys handle the speech checks in New Vegas, should it be made official? Will all the Guns speech checks be made into Small Guns? Will I then be penalized if I spec into Big Guns, being unable to use these checks to roleplay my character despite having a working knowledge of firearms? Will the speech checks be divided along both Big Guns and Small Guns? If so, how will you decide which dialogue goes into which skill? If it's not clear, will I be penalized from a roleplaying standpoint for neglecting one skill in favor of the other? Will each speech check be duplicated (or made into an "or" check), so that it doesn't matter if I'm high in either Big Guns or Small Guns? Would I then be penalized if I used both now, because skill points that previously went into one tree are now going into two, meaning I might not be able to take advantage of checks that I previously would be able to? Will it be a sum of both, meaning the skill checks will get much easier, throwing off the balance? Will you add entirely new speech checks for Big Guns, writing fanfiction?

Until there is an adequate answer to this question I would be inclined to say no to Big Guns' official inclusion. New Vegas was written around it being just "Guns" and because this doesn't matter narratively in Fallout 3 (as far as I know), and it matters a great deal in New Vegas, it makes sense to me to not have to worry about such considerations. It's far simpler to just stick with Guns and backport it to Fallout 3 because there's no narrative difference there, while porting Big Guns into New Vegas introduces a lot of questions about how roleplay will be handled.

Breaking mods shouldn't even be a consideration to begin with. This project is still in alpha, and that is the price of progress.

I have but one humble request: if it is made official, please allow us to optionally switch back.

[Risewild]

This is me talking by myself. No team input or anything, just my opinion.

The way I see it, if Big Guns makes it to default, TTW should change the Guns skill checks to Small Guns skill checks and replace (or also add) the Guns to Big Guns on those that apply.

There are only 3 guns dialogue checks in the base FNV and 3 in it's DLCs:

Base Fallout New Vegas:

• 
  40 Guns to access Alexander's inventory at 188 trading post.
  
  
  
  • 
    Should not change or should add the Big Guns skill to the check too (Shouldn't change if Alexander deals mainly in Small Guns, I can't remember to be honest, I only bought stuff from him once or twice and it was more than 5 years ago xD).
  
  
  
  


• 
  45 Guns and 45 Explosives to train the Misfits for the quest Flags of Our Foul-Ups at Camp Golf.
  
  
  
  • 
    Should not change. We train them to use Grenades (Still Explosives skill) and Service Rifles (Still Small Guns skill).
  
  
  
  


• 
  50 Guns and 60 Survival to receive the Schematics - .44 Magnum, hand load from Jules in North Vegas Square.
  
  
  
  • 
    Should not change. .44 Magnum is a Small Gun.
  
  
  
  

DLCs:

• 
  45 Guns to point out to Ricky that there is no such thing as an 11mm submachine gun.
  
  
  
  • 
    Shouldn't change.
  
  
  
  


• 
  50 Guns to procure a K9000 cyberdog gun, then 75 Guns to receive extra ammunition, from the think tanks of Big MT.
  
  
  
  • 
    Should change to Big Guns, since the K9000 is a Big Gun. We could even change the Courier dialogue to add a "large": "I'd rather have a good old-fashioned large gun.".
  
  
  
  


• 
  50 Guns to convince Dean Domino that you have the skills to defeat the ghost people of the Sierra Madre.
  
  
  
  • 
    This one shouldn't change or add the Big Guns to it too (I am on the fence on this one).
  
  
  
  

No new Skill checks would be added. Fallout New Vegas does not even have dialogue skill checks for all weapon skills, IIRC.

[Risewild]

[quote=LeopoldVR]

You would have to change a lot of dialouge options from big gun and small gun speech checks in new vegas if you were to add the big guns skill

[/quote]

Like I said in the post right before yours. There is only 6 Guns dialogue checks in FNV and all of the DLCs, and most would (probably) be unchanged. Three of them doesn't make any sense changing, from the remaining 3, 2 can still be unchanged (or just also add Big Guns in addition to the Small Guns check) and only one should be changed to Big Guns and it is to get a free big gun anyway.

So we wouldn't be changing a lot of dialogue checks, probably just 1.

[sgtnapalm]

I believe there's a 45 Guns check to pistol whip St. Claire in Beyond the Beef. Obviously, that wouldn't be a Big Guns check, you wouldn't be pistol-whipping with a minigun.

For the Ricky dialogue, I'd include that with Big Guns. An expert on large weaponry (and ammunition types), would logically have knowledge about standard ammo types. Just my two cents.

For the Old World Blues dialogue, changing the dialogue to "I'd rather have a big ol' gun." could also work and maybe flow a bit better.

But everything I just said is just nitpicky postulations that are not particularly pertinent to the present perdicament.

When you put it like that, it seems like there are clear and logical ways to handle the skill checks. I'm not sure I personally like it... But I say screw it, you only live once. Throw it in, I say it should be made default. I don't foresee it disrupting anything terribly much and it adds better balance to the Fallout 3 portion of the game (a game designed around big and small guns), and if it includes guns like the AMR it can force the player to make important choices about how they wish to structure their character.

First and foremost you wanna make an experience that's fun to play. The inclusion of Big Guns ties the game more directly with its routes and engages the player with another small layer of roleplay and decision making. Big Guns was never really useful in Fallout 3 from a metagaming standpoint but a lot of things aren't anyway.

Maybe it will break stuff or maybe it will be hard, like some others have said. But you guys know what you're doing. You gotta follow your own vision. I think it introduces a new way to experience New Vegas through the lens of Fallout 3, without disrupting New Vegas's balance terribly much (I don't think that being slightly less overpowered is all that bad), all while adding more depth to your character. Thumbs up.

[RoyBatty]

Making some posts for other facts to go along with what Risewild posted for speech checks.

Weapons with 100 Skill Requirement (some moved to Big Guns)

Guns (Small and Big)

• 
  Minigun


• 
  Riot Shotgun (stays small guns)


• 
  Anti-Material Rifle


• 
  Light Machine Gun


• 
  Marksman Carbine (stays small guns)


• 
  All-American (stays small guns)


• 
  Brush Gun (stays small guns)


• 
  12.7mm Submachine Gun (stays small guns)


• 
  CZ57 Avenger


• 
  Automatic Rifle


• 
  Bozar


• 
  Medicine Stick (stays small guns)


• 
  12.7mm Submachine Gun (GRA) (stays small guns)


• 
  Anti Material Rifle (GRA)


• 
  Eugene

Energy Weapons

• 
  Gatling Laser


• 
  Plasma Caster


• 
  Tesla Cannon


• 
  Heavy Incinerator


• 
  Tesla-Beaton Prototype


• 
  Elijah's Jury Rigged Tesla Cannon


• 
  Sprtel-Wood 9700


• 
  The Smitty Special


• 
  Tesla Cannon Prototype


• 
  Vengeance


• 
  Precision Gatling Laser


• 
  Drone Cannon


• 
  Drone Cannon Ex-B

Explosives

• 
  Fatman


• 
  Grenade Machine Gun


• 
  Mercy


• 
  Red Glare


• 
  Esther


• 
  Fatman (GRA)


• 
  Experimental MIRV

---

Weapons with 75 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  K9000 Cyberdog Gun


• 
  FIDO (skill 85)


• 
  Shoulder Mounted Machine Gun

Energy Weapons

• 
  Arc Welder

Explosives

• 
  Missile Launcher


• 
  Annabelle


• 
  Miss Launcher

---

Weapons with 50 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  None

Energy Weapons

• 
  Flamer


• 
  Cleansing Flame


• 
  Burn Master


• 
  Rapid-Torch Flamer


• 
  Slo-Burn Flamer

Explosives

• 
  None

---

Weapons with 25 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  None

Energy Weapons

• 
  Incinerator

Explosives

• 
  None

---

Weapons with 0 skill that would be moved to Big Guns

Guns

• 
  Rock-It Launcher

Energy Weapons

• 
  None

Explosives

• 
  None

---

The spread is mostly OK, the only issues is 100 skill weapons for Energy and Explosives. I would address this by raising the skill for the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle/Metal Blaster to 100 since these were end game weapons in Fallout 3. Additionally the Alien Blaster, Captain's Sidearm, Firelance and Microwave Emitter could be raised to 100 to give some 100 skill weapons.

Explosives is a bit more difficult, but the role could be filled with C-4 and a couple of the Mad Bomber things like the MFC Cluster or something.