Big Guns

[Yossarian]

I would absolutely vote against bringing big guns back. I want to use Big Weapons now and then if the need arises (Bomb Evergreen Mills to hell with Mininuke from above), but I wouldn't want to invest points into it. This will just prevent me from ever using big guns again. I think this was also the reason why the developers removed it in FNV.

[Risewild]

[quote=Yossarian]

 

I would absolutely vote against bringing big guns back. I want to use Big Weapons now and then if the need arises (Bomb Evergreen Mills to hell with Mininuke from above), but I wouldn't want to invest points into it. This will just prevent me from ever using big guns again. I think this was also the reason why the developers removed it in FNV.

[/quote]

Like I said before, they removed Big Guns because there was only a few weapons for it in FNV and because they thought the weapons were too powerful and didn't want to make lower tier weapons for the skill. But in TTW with the addition of all the FNV DLCs + FO3 and it's DLCs we have a huge list of weapons that can be Big Guns and this includes lower tier ones too.

Josh Sawyer:

When I was looking at Big Guns for F:NV, I considered that the list of weapons was small compared to any other weapon category and several of the weapons arguably belonged (or at least could be easily categorized) elsewhere. Moving the Big Guns to different weapon skills and dissolving the Big Guns skill would allow weapons like the minigun to remain as a powerful top tier weapon without needing to invent low-tier "Big Guns"

[Yossarian]

Ok I wasn't aware there are enough low tier Big Guns available to make this feasible. I guess it comes all back to the execution and balance. For me, the main requirement to make it fit into the game would be to have it available as a meaningful weapons skill starting from low levels, so I could tag it and have other supporting skills without having to tag another weapon skill in order to survive. In my opinion none of the previous games were able to do this. Also in the classic games the big guns skill wasn't well done. That's why I'm skeptical. But If you're able to implement it properly, then it also could be a nice addition to build diversity. After all, every skill, that is not integrated into the game don't serve any purpose. An issue, that many modern RPGs struggle with.

[Postal-Dude]

Sounds interesting to be honest. I can't relate much to it since I never used the Big Guns perk in Fallout 3. FNV just had a skill for Guns in general + Strength requirement. I prefered it like this. In fact I often only skilled Energy Weapons and Melee Weapons because I hated to skill both Small Guns and Big Guns to properly use them. FO4 brought big guns back in some sense of being perks but it made sense there since the whole skill tree is different.

Beside, Melee or Energy Weapons were also not divided into small and big. It just doesn't make much sense to me in general, especially with the Strength requirement now.

Cant say anything about FO1, 2 and Tactics. Never played them much since the gameplay doesn't appeal to me.

I would say, make it optional or not at all. Forcing such a change on the players might turn some off from TTW. Also I actually do worry that it will be a hassle to implement it back. Especially when I think of Mod compability... Pretty much no custom weapons from FNV would be affected by it, unless someone makes a damn patch for TTW for every single weapon. Sounds like a huge pain in the ass to me. But most here say its easy? But even if it is, I don't really want this skill being forced on me by default.

I don't need a difference between Small and Big guns, therefore I don't need Big Guns back, especially not by default! At least my point of view. So that is a no for me. Or make it optional.

[pintocat]

[quote=RoyBatty]

Another pro is that many people use TTW purely to play Fallout 3 in a more stable engine. Over the last year I've listened to them to make TTW more to their liking without making how TTW already works different for those who are used to it as is. It's setup in such a way that people can tailor the experience how they like. This would be yet another one of those things to allow people to tailor their experience.

[/quote]

As an option, that makes sense -- I just feel that TTW is TTW first, and Fallout 3 remastered second. I'm not against an optional, I just think the default should be NV oriented

[monyarm]

I'd like to throw my own 2 cents in about the return of Big Guns, I say, make it optional, that way those who want it can have it, while those who don't care about it, and would rather not break a bunch of the mods their using, can disable it

[Lyndi]

[quote=monyarm]

 

I'd like to throw my own 2 cents in about the return of Big Guns, I say, make it optional, that way those who want it can have it, while those who don't care about it, and would rather not break a bunch of the mods their using, can disable it

[/quote]

Please read the OP. The addition of Big Guns wouldn't break anything. Any mods you are currently using would be unaffected because those weapons would still be assigned to the same skill they've always been using. If you wanted one of those mods to use the Big Guns skill you would have to create a patch that changed their skill type, otherwise they'd just keep using Guns, Energy Weapons, or Explosives like they always have.

[Pathlessbullet]

Seems redundant considering Nev Vegas (re)introduced strength requirements and peak skill levels for categorizing heavy and light weaponry. The different weapon archetypes are already classified as well as they can be under the limits of the current skill system IMO. Unless we get niche skills added like "small energy pistols" or "big ballistic rifles".                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Reintroducing the "Big Guns" skill wouldn't add anything to the game and would only take away from existing skills.

[EnderDragonFire]

 

Well, I would really love to see this happen! However, I feel that it needs to be optional, since many people prefer the "Energy-Ballistic" dichotmoy over the "Light-Heavy" dichotomy, and this would get in the way of using things like the Gatling Laser with an energy weapons expert.

As an OPTIONAL plugin, that list seems pretty reasonable, EXECPT for the Bozar and AMR. The Bozar is not a big gun at all in my opinion, not even remotely so. It is referred to as the "​The ultimate refinement of the sniper's art" and is an automatic sniper rifle. AMR's and the Bozar are not much different, thematically, from the Gauss Rifle, and it was not a Big Gun in Fallout 3. Big Guns, as a concept, has always been used for large explosive weapons and large automatic non-rifle-grip guns in Fallout, never for large rifles like the Bozar, AMR, or Gauss Rifle. Snipers should be focussed on the GUNS skill, so they can naturall progress from the Hunting Rifle and Sniper Rifle to the AMR. Having a sniper who uses Miniguns and Flamers at lower levels seems rather odd, but that is what moving these rifles over would lead too. 

I am also on the fence about the Light Machine Gun and Automatic Rifle, but both could fit into big guns if you wanted them to. 

Just my 2 cents, since you asked for feedback.

 

I will reiterate OPTIONAL OPTIONAL OPTIONAL!!! I can think of, quite literally, dozens of popular gun and energy weapon builds that would break by moving the flamer, the gatling laser, the AMR, or the Bozar to a different skill. It would UTTERLY change the weapon progression and dynamics of New Vegas, on a level akin to a total overhaul. It is the BAD (in fact, WORST) form of feature creep to put this in the main mod. It would turn people AWAY from TTW if they don't have the time or knowledge to manually reverse these sort of unwanted changes, simply so they can play a vanilla FNV type of character build. For the love of whatever god(or goddess, or whatever) you pray to, do not put this in the main TTW mod.

You need examples of what it would ruin?

*Snipers who want to use the AMR as an end-tier rifle without investing in two whole skill trees.

*Energy perks (Meltdown, etc.) would not work with the Plasma Caster, Flamer, or Gatling Laser.

*Explosive builds relying on Grenade Machine Guns, Fat Man, Rocket Launcher, or anything other than grenades, really. 

[RoyBatty]

As another note it would upset the Skill Requirement for a couple of trees and there wouldn't be any skill 100 weapons in them anymore. This is sort of more what is meant rather than "Sniper" builds because there is already 5 other sniper rifles than the AMR and Bozar.

As for the Bozar and LMG, they are big guns (and any Light Machine Gun) in previous games.

Perks mostly use form lists, so most of the perks would still work like laser commander and plasma spaz, and it's easy enough to patch the other ones.

Explosives would still have grenades, mines, mad bomber, the grenade launcher/rifle and affect explosive rounds like the AMR's. There is already some cross skill stuff with perks. Pyromaniac works this way also with the Zhu-Rong, Shishkebab, Incendiary rounds and Dragon's Breath.